MTI hose

General Composites Discussions Products Talk
#1

Hello,

my name is Dominik Dierkes and I found this forum because my video has been linked in one of the threads.
We are a German company which has developed the MTI hose. MTI means Membran Tube Infusion.
The MTI hose is an evacuation hose for the vacuum infusion. It is air permeable but non permeable for resin. When resin reaches the membran it will stop there and will flow through the dry rest of the fabric. Thus cost intense and complex calculations of resin injection points are redundant. By using the MTI hose the complete impragnation of the fabric is guaranteed. The resin allocation can be arranged independently from the MTI hose, so it is possible to manufacture complex fibre parts by vacuum infusion. The MTI hose can be located directly on the fibre part, e.g. at critical points or fields with material accumulation (thicker layers).

The fibre to volume ratio can be exactly calculated, because no resin can discharge the mold. An additional advantage; the infusion process is visible and can be monitored at any time.
This process qualifies for small fibre parts and single piece production as well as for big fibre parts and serial production. The MTI process reduces costs while increasing the quality. The MTI process is suitable for conversion of production from hand lay up lamination to vacuum infusion, because for using the MTI process no molding lips are necessary. The MTI hose can be located directly at the edging of the fabric, thus conventional molds can still be used.

Advantages of MTI hose:

> less effort for preparing the infusion process
> no resin trap necessary
> few investment cost
> visible infusion process
> minimize of resin consumption
> resin allocation independend from evacuation hose
> small molding lips
> reduction of Dry Spots
> complete impragnation of the fabric
> more process stability for single piece production and small series
> minimize material consumption
> high fibre to volume ratio, adjustable through injected resin volume

We made a video of manufactoring a part. The video shows the effect that when resin arrives at the MTI hose i will not get in it and will further flow through the part.
[ame=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF3ll_h9EAw”]MTI Membran Tube Infusion, resin infusion, vacuum infusion - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lKabpAMluk”]How the MTI hose works - YouTube[/ame]

We tested the MTI hose with VE, Polyesther and Epoxi. All tested resins worked.
The MTI hose is also very interesting for people who want to try producing parts by infusion.
I send a sample to some of you and hope that you will test it. May be you can write your experiences in this thread.
If anybody else is interested in our product I can send a sample, please contact me via PM.

YOU CAN FIND YOUR DISTRIBUTOR AT www.dd-compound.com

Regards

Dominik

#2

I know of two people that would like this for a trial run not including myself.

#3

Wow that was fast I already received my sample today! Thanks Dominik! This hose is nothing like I have seen before. And the sample :eek: That’s what I call a sample. :smiley: Tonight I will try to make some test panels with it and post what happens.

Edit: Their is another 3 page pamphlet that I just found in the envolope which wasn’t in the pic FYI for those that also have a sample onthe way.

#4

You got yours too?! I just got mine in the mail 5 minutes ago as well. This stuff arrived faster than products I’ve ordered from 20 miles away.

The tubing looks and feels great, I thought it might be stiff or tough to work with but it’s a lot more pliable than spiral wrap or vinyl tubing.

Here’s a link to their shop in case you want to buy some. http://www.hp-textiles.com/shop/index.php?language=en

#5

Could I get a sample of your hose please and pricing?
Thanks, Ro Yale
Carbon Fiber Technologies
5910 Star Lane
Houston, TX. 77057
713-977-1469

#6

Our Company is DD-Compound, HP Textiles is our German/Europe supplier. HP Textiles sells our product in Germany/Europe. We work together with them because they are only 15km /8miles away. You can order the MTI hose direct at us or HP-Textiles.
The other samples will be shipped today.
When testing the MTI hose make sure that the ends of the MTI hose are tight! If not resin can get into the hose and the effect is smaller!

#7

I saw the hose in the HP-textiles webshop a couple of weeks ago, I thought it was very interesting, I did some infusions last year and couldn’t get all the air out, this seemed the perfect product to use. I’ll mail it to my old employer, and I’ll keep it in mind if I ever do an infusion again. My current employer swears with prepregs, as it is more traditional handwork, I think it’s just more expensive.

#8

Easier and more consistent. But yeah, expensive. I’m currently working with 200$/yd prepreg.

#9

That´s not the whole truth. It is different to vacuum infusion, yes, but more consistent depends on the person who manufactures the part. And easyer? Try to drape a prepreg when you have never worked with it. Also try to drape a dry fabric when you have only worked with prepregs.
Someone who has only worked with prepregs will swear to prepreg. For many people prepregs are the ultimate material because everything in the high end sector is made out of prepreg. But there are some sattelites that have been made by infusion because the laminate quality has been better. :wink:
The problem is that any mistake at an infusion process causes big problems. That’s why most people don´t like the infusion.
Both methods have their strengths and weaknesses. There is no war between prepreg and infusion. They are best friends and can help each other. :slight_smile:

#10

thumbs up to that. They definitely have their pros and cons. I can say though, without a doubt…no one likes thermoplastic prepregs. No tack, and hardly drapable :slight_smile: It all comes down to how good the operator is!

#11

Recived mine in record time too i have a panel to try it on wednesday so will right and share experiances

If hp textiles can ship as fast i can see me switching to permanant use

#12

Finally demolded these two test coupons and they look great! No complaints at all with the hose. It was VERY easy to work with and like Canyon said it’s very pliable. Surface finish is class A! I defiantly will be ordering some of this in the future. I still have part of the sample left so I’m going to do some more experimenting this week with different injection points.

Alittle info on what was used.
Mold release was Freekote 770
Both coupons are 4 layers of 5.7oz. 3K and the coupon with the small square pattern has 1/8" Divinycell core but I guess I forgot to take the pic showing the core before I did the layup. :o ( The core was just cut to size no perforations added or anything done besides cutting to shape, it is an infusion core )
Flow media was Enkaflow with a small square of Enkaflow jacket as the intake.
Bag was Strechlon 200 and bag tape was extra tacky from General sealants.
Vacuum level held at 29" until demolded and a 10min vac drop test was done before infusion with no drop in vac.
Epoxy was 150cps infusion epoxy.

In the first pic you can see the layup, I would have another showing the core in the middle but I guess I forgot to take that pic. Then you can see the fabric with peel ply and flow media kitted up ready to go on the glass. After I put it on the glass I decided to cut the flow media short and you can see that in the first bag pic before infusion. Another one is after infusion and you can tell the rest are after demold. Oh yeah the one with me holding the broken intake hose bent over is to show how I tell if the part is cured. If I can snap the intake line the laminate is probably cured also. Nothing was done to the surface finish to get the class A after demold, that’s how they come out. :smiley: Like I said before the one with the square pattern has the core.

Oh yeah before infusion I weighed each. Without core was 85g and w/core was 105g. After infusion the coreless weighed 140g and the cored weighed 175g for appox. 60% fiber/40% resin

#13

Here are the pics after demolding.

Thank you Dominik for sending the MTI sample. This is a great product.

Edit: Please DO NOT copy or repost these pictures in anyway on another website without my permission. Thank you

#14

What are you doing with those fabrics?

#15

Those test panels will go in the sample book. But the fabric is something I’m trying experiments with on cosmetic parts for boats and r/c heli’s. Why do you have some too?

#16

On the pic what did you put down on the fabric on the resin inlet? I always infuse from one side to the other. Never had inlet in middle of a panel. But i see you did a good job no print through whish is what id be afraid of

But if i run the mti can i still infuse one side too the other ??

#17

The white square? That’s the small square I cut of Enkaflow Jacket. The flow jacket is another replacment for spiral. And when I don’t want the imprinted shape of a threw bag connector on the fabric I will use that stuff. One thing you can’t see is I cut the white bottum off of the flow jacket so the resin could flow straight down and not out the perimeter. I also split the intake tube like a banana and folded the edges over under the jacket so the jacket holds the intake hose for me. On top of the CF is one layer white peel ply, one layer blue Enka flow media, then the small square of Enka flow Jacket. One thing to watch out for is the Enka jacket can hold a good amount of resin when compaired to normal spiral, and can be alittle difficult to remove from the center when the white peel ply is used. If a coated peel ply is used it’s alot easier to remove. I can take some pics of the jacket and how I cut it if you want.

I noramlly infuse across like you described. I havn’t done that infusion style with the MTI hose yet, that is something I am going to try tonight and I’ll post pics of that too. But I don’t see why it wouldn’t work. Dominik said I should have no problems going across. I only did the center out because that’s how the infusion process was described in the paper work I got with the hose.

I don’t think where you place the intake line will have an effect on print threw. That has more to do with if the resin is fully cured when you demold. Sure it might seem cured and when you demold it looks great but then the next day you can see print threw?

#18

Whenever i’ve used frekote 770 I always have some haze on the surface of the mold and parts.

It seems from the photos you have a perfect gloss finish.

#19

Yup it’s a perfect mirror gloss. You gotta buff the mold after applying the Frekote. Hojo has said to be careful not to buff the semi-perm off the mold and to use a piece of masking tape as a gauge to tell if you have a good coating on the mold. I know the Frekote instructions arn’t the best for figuring out how to get the gloss finish that the 770 says it gives.

#20

I really want to try something with the MTI hose other than infusion. I want to use it vs a crap load of beather. I like how the vacuum is wrapped around the perimeter. It’s a better concept than layering breather like it’s in style. A thin layer of glass over perforated film and breather strips to the perimeter. Or running the MTI across the part wrapped in breather.

Either way it would be cost effective saving breather.

What y’all think? And I’m talking about prepreg