Is this adhesive residue

General Composites Discussions Composites Talk
#1

I pulled a part from the mold today and it turned out pretty good other than what I think might be adhesive spray residue on the surface.
I used a new product from 3M “11095 Adjustable Composite Positioning System” I used very little and these specs seem to coincide with the same amount of product I sprayed into the mold. I think after I wet sand the part with 800 grit and clear coat it won’t be noticeable although still a letdown to have a surface that isn’t smooth and glossy from the mold.

What do you think it is? I hope you can see the pictures.

Sorry for the different size text I can’t figure out what caused it and I can’t seem to fix it.

#2

I’d say yes. It is. Is the spray compatible with the resin? Granted, it’s composite spray, so it SHOULD dissolve with most resins, otherwise why make the product.
Try 2 things. Use less spray, and hold the part under vacuum for longer. Maybe it will dissolve off any VOC’s in the spray. On the other hand, it might CURE the spray if you wait, and WANT to infuse ASAP to dissolve the spray while wet.

#3

The 11095 does have a blueish color similar to what it shows on your part . Is it possible you let the 3M dry before layup of your cf ?

#4

This could be the issue I didn’t think it was any longer than 30 seconds or so before laying in the cloth however maybe that was too long.
It says on the can -Compatible with and reactive with Vinylester, Unsaturated Polyester resin sytems and compatible with Epoxy-based resin systems- So I would think it would work with my resin.
Perhaps I should try spraying it on the cloth instead of the mold???

#5

It does seem odd how it can hold material in place for days while also stating not to let dry before adding layers .The only assumption that I’ve come up with is the possible evaporation of certain chemicals .I have been using it with great results so far .Knock on wood .lol . All of my layers are cut ahead of time off of templates that I save .After that its a light spray and lay . Hope you get it sorted out soon .

#6

Assuming you used epoxy, the resin diddnt disolve the adhesive like poly or ve would have. Use zyvax stayz spray interface instead. Its actully an epoxy not a “adhesive”

#7

Are you using epoxy resin?
Do you spray cloth or the mold?

Yep I am using epoxy resin.
Where do you get the zyvax stayz? It looks like it isn’t available anymore.
Does it spray into dry mold for infusion?

#8

Can’t see how one spray adhesive cant be used with both epoxy and styrene based systems? Two completely different systems. Suggest you have a look at the CCP online website and check out NuTack spray interface. They do both, NuTack E for epoxy applications and NuTack for styrene based systems i.e. VE and Polyesters. Using compatible spray interfaces based on the resin system you are using, ensures you don’t compromise the inter laminar shear properties of the part you are producing.

#9

That looks like a fancy name for super 77 haha. I’d just use super77. I don’t know the difference between the two but I know that even if I spray too much the solvent in the resin I use always dissolves it.

#10

You use PE or VE is that correct? Have you tried the 77 with Epoxy?

#11

Polyester and vinylester consist roughly for 30-40% of a very strong dissolving agent (styrene) which is very helpful for dissolving spray glues.

Epoxy in that respect is much more friendly. Hardly, if any, dissolving agents, so any spray glue will very likely show on the surface. The fact that it is “compatible” says nothing more than the fact that it does not harm the epoxy. It does not dissolve, it just sits there. Strength-wise it should be treated as an air bubble.

Indeed there are “epoxy based” spray glues. Perhaps compile a list. I actually am working on getting a sample, but the supplier is not really cooperative, unlike their promises.

A list:

Infuzene (www.ok2spray.com)
CCP Nutack E (www.ccp-online.com)
StayZ (www.zyvax.com)

Feel free to add to the list. Perhaps copy the list in a new posting, and add what you know.

I am also curious to learn the effects of the epoxy based sprays on the surface quality. I tried Airtac2, and although my colleague said you could not see it on the surface (we made a test panel) it was clearly visible. Spray pattern was much finer than the pictures above though.

#12

This is bad news as I can’t imagine doing some parts without adhesive. Perhaps when I’m more experienced I will be able to accomplish this.

#13

Ive been using mostly VE resins so far .The case from 3M only just showed up last week and Ive used it every workday so far . I did make 2 parts with epoxy and they did not show any residue like in your pics . Recent weather has been abnormal too . Its been cold , hot , rainy , with high and low humidity .
I spray the ACPS directly onto my molds .A quick sweeping arm motion with light sprays .

#14

I had better luck with cheap spray glues than expensive ones!!! :p:p:p

#15

Anyone tried STAYZ from zyvax ? is it still up for sale ? Hard to imagine there is no alternatives

#16

StayZ got taken off the market due to it having a very short shelf life!
Supposedly it was curing in the cans after a few weeks of storage…

I got that info from the only company in the uk that supplied it
“easycomposites” its a big talking point on there forum as everyone wants a perfect epoxy infusion friendly spray :sad:

#17

i have three cans for sale, cheap… did,nt even use a drop… bought from the same place i got 5 year old zyvax from. They [him] mix some mek into ve resin to make infusion resin,really!

#18

wonder how a gallon and spray with your own sprayer works [last]?

#19

So this is very WANTED product which is not available… thats sad