wow, you write very fluent English Carbon Mike. I thought you were in the US.
2Werksberg: Thats OK hehe
2Fastrr: Thanks, I really appreciate that you think so I try to write in english best I can, but Im still learning
I believe that fabric is Textreme by Oxeon, also known as checkerboard fabric.
No thats not TeXtreme. TeXtreme is weaved. This one isnt. It has got stright UD stipes without any weave. I was looking at it on my own eyes. Also Scott use it for their bikes. Look at this detail (seattube detail with parting line):
You can see that those UD stripes are not crossed.
The same on this TLD helmet:
Oh, yes, you’re right. Do you think they make it like that themselves using strips of UD? I guess that’s what the woman is cutting the strips for.
Yes they do. I wrote it at my first post
,Also very interesting is picture where a woman prepares special kind of fabric with long UD strips. I was wandering about one year how they get it. Now I know .,
man, i’d like to have all those stacked sheets of carbon fiber and that roll too That’s probably about what $2,000 worth? More than i can afford anyway:)
I would have gave my left nut to own a carbon fiber road bicycle frame 5 or so years ago. I loved to ogle over them at the local bicycle shops, but the price always kept me at bay. Back in 1990 the one i was looking at cost $900 for just the frame. I think it was made by Canondale.
edited: lol i just found this after making my last post. trust me Canondale has been making c/f frames for many many years. They write about how they are now using aluminum parts in the frame build for a good reason. I wonder how a bicycle frame would do if half the tubes were c/f and the other half were aluminum? Like make the rear triangle out of carbon tubing and the front out of thin wall aluminum tube.
http://www.compositesworld.com/hpc/issues/2006/January/1159
Another link to the bicycle manufacturer LOOK with their latest carbon fiber road bike frame, check out the price on just the frame and forks…wow:
http://www.cyclingplus.co.uk/biketestdetails.asp?id=719
So they lay the bike up with graphite. Then the UD is put on after the initial layup as a cosmetic layer?
One way or the other thats some impressive work. I would love to talk with the master mind behind all of this. Seems like a lot of stupid proof steps would be needed to mass produce those.
2Fastrr: Use of aluminium frame parts such headtube area, bottom bracket area, etc. (called lugs) its now a bit oldschool technology. There are of course some companies building this frames. This is prefered mostly by companies which have lot of experience with aluminium frames. For them its easier to build this frames.
There are also frames made from aluminium (front triangle) with bonded carbon chainstay and seatstay. Frame producers can just buy those chainstays and seatstays from companies which are focused on carbon parts (like Easton). If you work years with aluminium and if you want to be competitive on market (more and more frames switch to carbon), its hard to JUST start building full carbon frames, so its one of the way. Look here for Easton stays offer: http://www.eastonbike.com/PRODUCTS/TUBING/tubes_ec90_e-stay.html
2JRL: This is the process (I suppose):
Moulds are sprayed with mould release and maybe som kind of gelcoat (I dont know about gelcoats+prepregs). Than that special handmade fabric is layed in mould to make nice outer skin (fabric is cutted along mould line). Separately, whole layup is made. Thay make layup by sections (headtube section, bottombracket section…). You can see that on picture No.3. Thay use som kind of wax core or other to lay prepreg pieces (white think on same picture). You can also see that ,core, on picture No. 6 (on right side next to finished part). Than they put the core away (wash or melt). After that thay join all section with rolled prepreg tubes (picture No.5) and insert inflamable bladders. Than they put it in mould, close mould, put it in press, inflate bladders and hotcure. End pop up…
So thats wax? For a second I thought it was polyethylene rods (or teflon) used to hold things in place during bonding.
Now that I look at it, it makes more sense that its wax.
Im not sure if its a wax. It looks like wax. It should be other material, but it has to be removable (meltable or washable)
hmm…amazing process. never saw manufactures pictures like that before. And I LOOOOOVE that UD crossply look. Should have thought of that before I left my wonderful UD prepreg at my last job.
Hmm…maybe there is some laying around here…
Anyway, yeah, that could be a very hard machineable wax. It would make sense, I’m sure whatever molding and epoxy is used, the wax will melt at a lower temp.
However… if you melt the wax in an uncured part, then the pre-preg/epoxy will not bond to itself. So it very well might be plastic that they pull out of the rough form, and then bladder mold it in the frame mold.
Or something…
ROAD TRIP!
Yes, I was also thinking this way. Maybe its made all different way. Maybe they dont use that core on picture No.7. In pic. No.3 that material is definetly som kind of wax. You can see that its also transparent littlebit. But whats more amaizing, I was looking carefully to all pictures and found differences. Mould on picture No.6 match frame layup at pic. No.5 but at pic. No.7 there is differen frame! Also on picture No.8 the frame is different from those above.
And what do you mean by: ,Road trip,?
If you’re talking about the green thing in the right of the second pic, that’s definitely not a filament winder. That shop’s a bit too low tech for that! It’s just a cutting or stamping tool.
This is a low end filament winder:
Pure teflon looks exactly like that. White and slightly transparent (up to a certain thickness). Obviously nothing will stick to it.
We used it as a brace in some of our B52 parts.
So it should by also teflon. Hmm. Interesting. What is melting point of teflon?
Not sure. Definitely not cost effective to melt teflon. Its super expensive in a machined form. And most epoxys will melt long before teflon does.
For the purpose you mentioned it makes sense cost wise to use wax. An diluted acitic acid bath will take care of cleaning the part for secondary bonding.
If its a solid re-usable mandrel I would guess polyethylene. As its a release agent for epoxy, but also a hard plastic (and cheap). Or teflon.
I don’t think it melts, more than chars, but either way, above, 315c.
I’m sure they have several bike lines, and styles of layups. The pictures can be out of order, and very random. Who took them?
Roadtrip to the factory and get our OWN pictures!!!
haa!! It’s more high-end then ours, THAT is for sure!!!