Zen Tools CNC

General Composites Discussions Equipment Talk
#1

I thought a few of you also might be interested in CNC machines or have some experience so I decided to post this here. Not exactly a composites specific purchase but I split the purchase of Zen Tools CNC Mill to learn how to operate and run one of these machines.

It’s a tiny machine in the CNC world (7x7x5 in cutting envelope) but I bought it since it runs off 120 volt AC and is easily transportable. It was also relatively cheap, especially when I split the price with my friend, and it came in kit form, which made it cheaper to ship and added more fun with assembly.

Although small I figure I can use this thing to make small shapes and learn how to machine composites easily and effectively. It also will give me the capability to compare the strength of composite materials machined with various tool which I hope to do in the near future

#2

This thread is useless without pics! (and links…)

Be carefull with cutting carbon, it will destroy anything with a power cord.

#3

haha, that’s funny I was looking at this earlier and was about to post “pics or it didn’t happen”. Then I was about to spout off some questions, but I figured I should do a little independent research. here are a couple links…

http://www.zentoolworks.com/

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=tools&field-keywords=Zen%20Toolworks

(the amazon site has some pretty good reviews on the machines)

that is as far as I’ve gotten… I’ll report back if I find some better info.

canyon, I can’t seem to find the 7x7x5 unit. All I see is the 7x7x2… do you have a link to that one? Or did you purchase some sort of conversion?

#4

Whoops, Yea let me post a whole bunch of links and whatnot.

@Fleisch: Here’s a link to the conversion kit. http://www.zentoolworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=14&products_id=116

Here’s a video of my CNC running for the first time. I made it for my friend

[ame=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrBLnsAqPuI”]YouTube - Zen CNC First Home Test[/ame]

Here’s his forums that has some info
http://forums.zentoolworks.com/

and here’s his storefront
http://www.zentoolworks.com/store.php?cPath=14

and Wiki

http://wiki.zentoolworks.com/index.php/Main_Page

The 7x7 usually comes with 2 inch Z travel but there’s a conversion kit for 80 bucks that swaps the gantry and adds 3 inches of travel. I emailed the owner directly and asked if I could sub the 5 inch gantry directly since that extra 3 inches is extremely nice. The 7x7 comes with NEMA 17 stepper motors

He also sells a 12x12 model with NEMA 23 motors, I don’t know the Z travel on the unit. I ended up picking the smaller unit due to cost and size considerations, mostly cost. If I get good with this machine though I might upgrade once I get a job.

The machine is sold separately from the controller PSU and spindle. I ended up buying all of those from Zen Tools directly but it seems that many people swapped their own components in, such as Ebay Controllers and Dremel tools for the spindle.

Here’s a video of another guys CNC machine. It shows off the capabilities of the machine.
[ame=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MKESJ1X_l0”]YouTube - CNC Engineering 3D router.avi[/ame]

#5

New toys are always fun! I’m sure you have looked at McMaster but they have a good selection of cutting bits. And if you have electronic problems from cutting carbon here is where you can get some inexpensive replacment motors and controllers.
Motors http://www.circuitspecialists.com/level.itml/icOid/10277
Controller 3-axis http://www.virtualvillage.com/cnc-micro-stepper-driver-board-mill-3-axis-007807-097.html
4-axis http://www.virtualvillage.com/driver-board-for-4-axis-cnc-stepper-ta8435h-009101-002.html

If you need any g-code files created let me know I have Rhino/SW/PRO-E all with CAM.

#6

If you are looking for milling bits, I just got an email from MSC advertising 35% off cutting tools… but I guess it’s only through tomorrow so you’d have to be quick about it. Shoot me a PM if you are interested, I’ll send you the promo code.

#7

Mcmaster will always be expensive on cutting tools, but is great for buying materials (delrin, uhmw, aluminum, etc). Use MSC or Enco for tooling.

#8

Dang you guys are helpful!

@Rotorage
One of the most confusing parts about this CNC is what cam software to use. There’s Mastercam, MeshCam, CamBam, Surfcam, Bobcad etc etc etc. At the moment I bug my friend with mastercam to give me G codes for simple things like squares and circles so I can run this thing and learn how to read the code. When he gets tired of me I might be sending you pms!

@Fleisch
I’ll send you a PM now. At the moment the only tool I have is pen, and my current material is paper :D. Some cutting tools to use would be great.

@Romoman
Hell yea McMaster Carr is expensive. I was going to get an acme tap from them but turns out its 70 bucks! Grainger had some cheap cutting tools for 5 dollars and it seems like they also might have a local warehouse so I can just pick up. I most likely will be buying material from McMaster Carr though.

Thanks for all the input. I just received my nose cone plug as well so it might be a while till I get back to this though. I’ll keep this thread updated!

Thanks again

#9

Watch buying cheap taps. For things like plastic they work ok, but if you are doing anything stronger than aluminum, by a decent tap. There is nothing worse than breaking a tap and not having the equipment to remove it.

Feel free to ask me tooling questions. I ran a machine shop for 5 years and did all the tooling purchases.

#10

Like they said… if cutting aluminum or tougher materials buy Cobalt cutting tools… if cutting stainless steel or tougher buy carbide cutting tools. Many of the TiNi coated cutting tools are good also. Just make sure to use the correct speed/feed or could chip your cutter.

with carbon couldn’t you make a flexible breather hose for the motor so the motor could be covered by plastic cover, and get sufficient air when working carbon fiber?

check out CNCzone forum too… may pick up some info there.

I wonder if this is the same guy that makes the ZEN that build kits in his bathroom at home? remember that youtube vid, guy builds one with mdf and all the stepper motors, threaded rods etc. anyway i thought it was really cool.

#11

Carbon and metals are a long way off for me. I’m barely competent with G code and machine controls. I’m even less component with running cam programs and running efficient tool paths. My goal is to learn all of that before I start cutting into expensive materials

#12

Congrats on the new acquisition!

I built a CNC router about a year and a half ago after realizing it’s value for producing molds, cores, etc. and it’s honestly changed how I approach every project - you’ll enjoy it!

Been in your shoes with CAM programs, as well. I chose MeshCAM in the end - very reasonable price, and they DO offer a 30-day full feature trial. I found it to be very intuitive to learn, and the features are very powerful.

The company’s customer service is top-notch, I’ve personally emailed back and forth with Robert a number of times with questions, or my feedback on the product, to the point where I’m now listed in the V4 beta changelog for my contribution!

Feel free to ask me any other questions on MeshCAM, or CNC in general! The learning curve can be a bit steep, but there are great resources everywhere.

Cheers!

#13

Have you had a chance to play with this some more? How is it?

#14

I haven’t had a ton of time to play with it but it’s serving is purpose of being a learning machine very well.

So far I’ve learned a lot of G code and made a ton of mistakes running it. In particular for this machine I learned that it’s best speed is around 12 in/min and that calibrating a machine to work takes about 30 mins but getting it to work REALLY well takes over 3 hours of fiddling around.

At the moment I can only control the spindle by physically hooking up a lead to a fixed 30 vol power supply. I don’t have an automatic spindle on off control or speed control but I’m looking to add that soon. A member on CNC Zone posted a schematic on how to make a PWM board to accomplish this so I’ll try it shortly.

All in all this machine is great for learning basic CNC operations and running small scale parts really slowly. I wish I had better spindle control, a larger cutting table, servo motor control, coolant capabilities and a more rigid frame but all of these would cost me more than I can afford so I’m willing to sacrifice those to learn how to run something. I figure all these skills will translate when I get a chance to run a bigger machine.

#15

Quick update on this. I cut a 20 layer unidirectional coupon and the results were really nice. Set the machine to do a straight cut at .5 ipm, three passes to cut .31 inches of depth. The length of cut was 1 inch and I used a 2 flute end mill. The cut came out really clean except for some frayed fibers at the very bottom layer.

A vacuum I was using to collect the dust didn’t though, near the end of the cut it overheated, not sure if it was the carbon dust or something else though. Either way I’m hesitant to cut carbon again inside the same room where I sleep, it seems like the dust is pretty noxious stuff so I might hold off until I move back to my parent’s house where I can cut in the garage with the door wide open.

Aluminum didn’t work well at all, the PVC frame flexed to much and the quality of cuts was ok at best. Wood and rubber cut just fine though.

#16

I was thinking if you could do Al (even if very slowly) it might be worth it to try to remake the frame pieces in Al.

#17

Was thinking about this but the members are larger than the cutting table itself. I think instead I’ll grab some steel L bracket and bolt them through to stiffen the gantry.

Either way I’m well aware of the capabilities of this machine. It will never get the capability of cutting steel or maybe even hardened aluminum but it’s quite fantastic for learning and churning out small parts. I’m having a blast with it. It’s really neat to model something on a computer then have it come out in real life.

#18

Yeah, I get in the machine shop at school as much as I can, but as far as CNC I don’t really know anything. I was thinking maybe you could cut out the bottom part say and then re-fixture it, indicate everything in, and cut the top (though obviously not the best way to do it, but might suffice?). Though often futile, I feel like it’s typically good learning to fiddle with things and try to make them perform better, but sure, definitely need to know the basics first.

#19

For sure I agree. I have a lot that needs to be done on the machine. On the list are is making a PWM switch for spindle speed control, making an enclosure for the board and finding a better workholding method (at the moment I’m using tacky tape.)

Then tons of practice with Mastercam with cheap materials like foam and plastic and once I get good enough I’ll try cutting aluminum!

#20

I love vacuum tables for clamping they can hold dang near anything. Plus most all of us already have the vacuum pump:) http://cgi.ebay.com/Vacuum-table-VT1212-smart-CNC-Engraving-or-Milling_W0QQitemZ270688531433QQcategoryZ109681QQcmdZViewItem I think that would would be the size you need if not here is a bigger one http://cgi.ebay.com/Vacuum-Chuck-VTZ84SMART-CNC-Table-for-Engraving-Milling_W0QQitemZ280604163428QQcategoryZ109681QQcmdZViewItem And here are some small vises http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_category.php?category=1963256913