VE Infusion Resin

General Composites Discussions Products Talk
#1

I’m looking for a good VE infusion resin from Composites One. I really don’t know what I’m doing but I have had good success with thin laminates using the expresscomposites infusion resin. I’m having difficulty with saturation on large stacks of material and have found out that its not in fact an infusion resin and the viscosity is higher than desired, at least from what the tech sheets say for the hetron 922-l-25.

Does anyone have experience with the following resins? If so how did they work and what catalyst that is h202 free is best to use? Also, if its not promoted, How do you promote it? Is post curing in an oven necessary?

AOC FV R015-APF-55 VE INFUSION RESIN
or
RCI FV 33385-10 HYDREX ONE-HF VE BLEND FOR INFUSION

Thanks,
Sam

#2

Key things to look for in a VE infusion resin are as follows:
High solids content or conversely low VOC content. Some suppliers will list the VOC’s and others will list the solids of the resin. With this in mind a low viscosity resin also is critical for infusion processing. 80-120 cps is ideal. Be careful, you don’t just get a resin that starts out life in a high viscosity, that just has styrene monomer added to it, or you will have a resin system that will shrink at higher rate than normal. I have checked out one of the resins you have listed above, and it looks ok but suppliers data sheets can be vague sometimes, the AOC resin looks ok. Could not find any data on the other.It also recommends that you catalyse with Norox CHM50 (cumyl hydroperoxide), which is to answer your question above, a h2o2 free catalyst. It will also reduce the peak exotherm of the resin markedly with no effect to the cure. Post cure as well, is always a good option to optimise cure, especially in VE’s. One note to be careful of. Not all resins, are promoted at the same rate. Meaning that if you have two different VE’s you would not add the same amount of promotors to each. Consult the supplier for their recommended promotion levels to suit a
Cumyl hydroperoxide catalyst. Also not all VE’s are compatible with CHM50 catalyst, so again be careful.
In house testing is always a good way of determining what suits you, if you can’t get the info from the supplier. A reasonably accurate set of weighing scales is essential for promoting and catalysing of VE’s. In my view your first investment!

Hope this helps, happy to assist further.

#3

All of your questions would be best answered by either AOC or Reichold. I would call each and ask for tech support and they should be able to get you the answers you are looking for.

#4

Nicoley, thanks for the info, thats a big help. I’m going to run some test samples with the AOC and see what happens.

Infusion, I had spoken with AOC, but since i’m clueless as to what they are telling me, it was not any help, and I was looking for personal opinions from someone who has used the product already, but thanks for your input as well.

Sam

#5

I have not used the AOC resin but I have used the Reichhold Hydrex One.

By reading the Reichhold data sheet it appears that the “-10” portion of the part number (33385-10) indicates that this resin is promoted and has a gel time of 42 when used with 1.5% MEKP-9. It also states it works with CHP catalysts which should reduce peak exotherm and give you better cosmetics. Due to the shear number of different catalysts testing is the best way to determine if a particular catalyst is compatible with a particular resin.

The unpromoted version is PN 33385-50 and can be promoted with PN 46590-00 which is likely some sort of Cobalt compound. If you get the unpromoted version you will need a “promotion schedule” from Reichhold which will tell you what the gel time will be as a function of the amount of promoter added i.e. 1% promoter and 1.5% MEKP-9 = 42 minute gel time. Please note that you can never allow the promoter and catalyst to come into direct contact.

#6

Be mindful of the percentage of Cobalt Octoate you have or are supplied with. There are different concentrations of cobalt octoates. 6%, 8% are typical type of concentrations available. Anything greater than these will make your addition rates very, very small and hard to measure in small quantities of resin.
Again as suggested make sure you get the suppliers promotion levels if they have supplied an un-promoted resin to you. Some will also recommend the use of DMA as a co promotor with the cobalt. Do not stress the DMA will assist with the back end cure. This will help with the VE cure more positively, with low ambient temp environments and thin or low resin content parts. The consequence of this as well will be, that it will shorten and increase the gel to peak exotherm time and temp. This will also increase the rate of shrinkage though. As I mentioned earlier, different VE’s will and can have varying degrees of reactivity as well as part thicknesses and ambient temps can also play a big part on how you promote the resin.
My preference is to get the resin un-promoted and promote to the day (temp) and the the part your are producing. It also allows you to extend the shelf life of the resin by not having it promoted. It also assists in you not having large increases or decreases in catalyst additions. 1.5% catalyst addition is optimum! Tailor the promotion to the ambient temp of the day vs part thickness vs cosmetic requirements vs cure or demould time. You will get to know what you can or can’ t do with your resin and promotion levels, by experimenting with the different catalyst’s that are also available. Suggest you pick a resin and catalyst system and master the above. You will find it very rewarding!

#7

Sorry to, harp on. The promotion levels you get from the supplier are a guide and starting point. They do not give you min’s and max’s. They don’t know what you are making! So the above comes in to play even more. Also what suits you may not suit others! Master you’re own shop, techniques share with others your experiences and problems as well. The only way to learn I feel. I have been in the composites industry for 32 years on both sides of the fence. Supplier and fabricator, you would be amazed what you still learn. I do, from forums like this.

Thank you always willing to share and help

#8

Thanks again for all your help. I’m going to do alot of testing. I like the idea of promoting my own. Whether I’m successful or not, i’ll get a good education from trying.

Thanks,
Sam

#9

Sam
Give us a yell if you need a hand
Happy to help

#10

Nicoley3 is right: Be absolutely positive on your cobalt concentration. He seems to encounter 6 and 8% mostly, I come across 1%, 6% and 10%. The higher the concentration, the less garbage (The other 90%) is added. (mostly white spirit or the like).

To add very small percentages, while not having an accurate scale:

For instance to add 0,01%:

-add 1% to a kg of resin (and label that resin very carefully)
-add 1% of that mixture to the resin which is going to be used.

This system can be used with easy on other percentages.