vac flo moulding

hi
im totally new to infusion

i have this idea that i want to move my business from hand layup (currently) to rtm/vac flo whatever its called i can use to cut down labour time.

this video basically has the process exactly what i want to do.

[ame=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Smks8TvBUc0”]Vac Flo Moulding - YouTube[/ame]

is this really what its called “vac flo moulding”? basically nothing comes up when i type that into google.

is this basically rtm lite without a pump pushing the resin in?

im sorda just looking to learn more about this sort of thing. anyone know any info availble in book form or on the internet?

ive watched that video about 10 times now lol. thanks in advance.

cheers
ben

Hello,

yes, thats RTM lite. Works only if you don’t need a high VF. Other possibility is vacuum infusion with a bag, therefore you can take a look at the MTI thread in the products talk.
Or type lange ritter in youtube, there you can see another RTM light process.

This is RTM Light or VARTM. I am totally not impressed by the video. OK, they do the process, but they failed to invest in the machinery to make it a clean, simple and economical process.

In order to convert (part of your) company to RTM Light, you need a couple of things:

-sale of the right products, as in, products that can be produced in RTM Light. Usually lower tech parts, in higher volumes (50+). You can include inserts into the parts when needed.

-a manufacturer or employee that can make the moulds for you. The moulds are not difficult to make, but it takes a couple of days, and the detailing is important. Usualy an older employee with more experience and the needed tranquility is super. Award him with his own corner in the workshop.

-an RTM machine. This machine will do the mixing of the resin for you, injecting it in the mould at a preset pressure, and a preset amount. After the infusion, the mixing head flushes with acetone. There are very simple, completely manually operated machines, but also very extensive ones, that have alarms on catalyst flow and level, acetone level, can vary the peroxide ratio during the infusion, same for pressure, have RFID tag readers, to automatically select the right program for the right tool, inline heaters, etc etc.

-a mould connector. This quick-connects to the mould, and after the infusion shuts off, and makes it possible to flush the resin line with acetone. MVP calles them “autosprue”

-infusion resins. Many are available, choose the one which you can work with. Buying larger (10.000 kg upwards) in a tanker saves money considerably. Source a stainless tank to store the resin, or have the tanker dispense it in IBCs. (when using a stainless tank, make sure every fitting is SS as well, or the resin will suddenly cure.)

-infusion peroxides. In general you can use faster curing peroxides, with faster final cure. Talk to your supplier.

-Vacuum source. You need 2 vacuum levels. Perimeter flange needs a high vacuum, products needs a lower vacuum. (some -0,6 bar) Depending on your situation install a fixed installation, with 2 vacuum lines or with regulators (2 lines is more fool proof, especially when you install different connectors for high and low). Or use a trolley with a vacuum pump, which can deliver 2 vacuum levels.

-compressed air is needed for the infusion machine, and for the dynamic seal of the mould. Amount of air needed is not so much.

Basicly that is it. 2 big players in this field are MVP (old Plastech) and Composite Integration. The latter being more advanced, and with great service.

More things:
Do not get tempted to use anything else than aceton to flush the system. Aqueous solutions are available, but cause more problems. That really is something you can experiment with later, when business is running.

Do not get tempted to use silicone top moulds. In theory they work, but they are very fragile. One mistake and the profit is gone. Stick with polyester, vinylester or epoxy top moulds for the time being. Let others do the experimentation.

Keep some critical spares for your machines in stock. And have someone available that can maintain the machine. It is not a complex machine, but someone needs to take it apart every now and then. (good opportunity on saturday mornings)

RTM light can really turn your company into a more industrial and much cleaner environment.

thanks for your reply that clears things up a lot:)

OK, they do the process, but they failed to invest in the machinery to make it a clean, simple and economical process.

from what ive seen this process eliminates the having to buy the machinery your refering (rtm lite) to in order to save on start up costs even if its not as effecient. because im on a strict budget this is perfect for me. im sure one day ill be able to afford efficient rtm machinery.

the same people who have created this video also have another one on rtm lite and it has the machinery your refering to in it.

one more question.

have people used the bagging techique to make thick rtm moulds or is mostly done using hand layup?

cheers
ben

The bottom mould can be done using infusion, but most are made with a rapid tooling system. The smaller size of the mould usually does not make it economical to infuse it.

The top mould is almost always hand laminated. It needs quite a few patches which need thick bog to fill crevices. (edge detail)

Not having a machine which adds positive pressure in my opinion is a waste of time and money. The edge design for a non-machine top mould is different (a break-off flange cannot be used) and thus you need to cut every piece you make to the exact size.
Also the process is MUCH slower, and disconnecting the resin feed is messy.

Take into account all these hours, and the resin wasted by catalysing too much, and a machine is quickly earned back.

I would really see if you can find a used machine, or a very basic one, and use that. Ask around and see if you can find a beater. Usually they can be refurbished with some effort and parts. (investige before you buy)

And remember: ther is never time to do it right, but always time to do it over!

thanks for all the helpful info,

i highly doubt a used rtm machine would come up in australia. but i suppose its worth keeping a look out. there would only be at most a handful of companies even using rtm.

for a new machine i can get one for 15k.

at this stage i have quite a number of products that i make 1 or 2 a week of. am i silly looking at rtm. my plan is to be still pumping parts out of these moulds in 10 - 20 years time?

question, if i was to build rtm moulds to suit non machine could i adapt them to suit a machine later?

cheers
ben

Ask the supplier for a used machine. Or a demo.

Adapting from non machine to machine requires a new top mould. That is, if you like to benefit from having a sort of clamp-edge, which makes a “break line” on the part. After cure and demoulding, the only thing you need to do is to break off the excess (by hand) and run over some sandpaper. This saves a huge amount of cutting, with the associated mess.