Switching from Wax to Frekote 770NC - Questions

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#1

I’m planning on switching my mold release agent from Meguiars Max mold release wax to Frekote 770NC. I spoke with a rep from Northern Composites and he recommended the 770NC to me. I was having a difficult time releasing my sunroofs from the mold with using wax alone.

My questions:

  1. Do you think that the Frekote 770NC will yield easier releases than the wax?

  2. The rep from Northern Composites said I would have to remove all the wax from the mold surface. He was recommending strong solvents. What would you recommend for me to do to prep the mold for the Frekote application?

#2

Most of the Semi-perm releases come as a system. One can for cleaning,surfacing and then sealant.

Surely this brand has a suggestion for best results. I would make the call before just going with say Acetone or something less thorough.

But to answer your first question…“YES”, your releases will be certainly easier to pull. You won’t be sorry.

#3

I did some research and it looks like Frekote mentions the use of their PMC cleaner to remove old wax. I took a look at the MSDS and it appears to be a 50/50 mix of Toluene and MEK. They also mention using a sealer if the mold is green, they recommend their FMS product. I’m not sure if my mold is considered green or not. Its a few months old, so I’d imagine its cure is complete.

#4

I’d always treat any mold as if its GREEN and needing the most attention. Its as much about how many times the mold has been cycled as anything really.

Insurance…go full tilt boogie on the steps.

#5

The best way to remove the wax is to use some medium and then fine grit buffing compound. Many of the chemical compounds either don’t remove the wax very well or will etch the mold surface. The mold cleaners for the Zyvax line will ruin many epoxy mold surfaces. Polish and clean off with lots of clean rags. If the surface starts to squeek with the buff cloth then the wax has been removed. After this I clean any residue off with PPG Acryli-Clean DX330 Wax and Grease Remover. It’s aggressive enough to remove the residue but mild enough to not damage the mold surface. You can get if from any Autoparts store that carry PPG paints. I get it locally from CarQuest. I squirt it on with a spray bottle, the residue floats to the surface of the film, then lots of clean cloths can be used to wipe it away.

I get much easier releases with Frekote 770-nc than waxes.

You will want to use the Frekote FMS sealer (3 coats) to seal the mold surface before applying the Frekote 770-nc. I apply 3 coats no matter the age the mold surface. I can tell a difference between sealed and unsealed surfaces.

A word of caution: Some resins don’t work with Frekote (and other semis). You want to test the system on the flange before committing to the full layup. The mold surface can play a part in the release. It’s possible to find a layup resin that will release from Frekote on a specific mold surface coat but then no release from a different mold surface coat. If you are still using the Adtech 820 then I’m pretty sure that you will be good to go. I’ve successfully use 820 and Frekote of surfaces made with MGS resin, Atech ES-221, and others. You should still do a flange test to make sure.

#6

John Rude your sales rep im guessing?

Frekote works well, much better than wax IMO

#7

Yes, John Rude. John was super helpful and took a lot of time to answer questions and try to steer me to the right products for me and my budget. If he gets back with me with a quote I’d love to order the materials from him. I called on wednesday around lunch, and haven’t heard back yet. Maybe I’ll call and make sure I wasn’t forgotten, or the email never made it.

#8

Not to get off topic here but where can I buy small amount of frekote sealer, I have the 770 release but the cheapest I found was on eBay for $50 for a quart of the sealer.
my experience with frekote has been great ( only used it on glass so far) but I like the fact that leaves no residue and saved me so much time and my right shoulder :slight_smile:

#9

Please post up your results after switching :).

#10

If you are ordering small quantity you can get it from Jon at Soller composites. He sells 16 oz containers of both the FMS and the 770. I think he sells the FMS for $34.99 for a 16oz container.

#11

John’s a good guy, known him for about 5 years now. We usualy catch up once a year and grab some beers. If he hasnt gotten back to you yet it might be because hes on the road. I would probably just give him a call and tell him your ready to order.

#12

John said he was swamped, no problem, I understand that. He did have some pretty hefty min quantities for many of the items. Too much quantity for what I’d use, and the cost was more than I could budget for. Someone recommended Soller Composites, and I put in an order with them.

#13

John @ sollercomposites.com is great as well. He is one of the few guys who is servicing the Frekote system is smaller quantities for hobbyists. It’s great that you supported him as he has thought about dropping the FMS sealer and the 770nc release from his product line.

#14

He better not drop them! I just ordered a can of each last week. Being that most of my molds are very small, one can of sealer and release lasts me a really long time.

#15

:stuck_out_tongue: Love FK, nice stuff…Has anyone tried the Airtech release? I got a sample of it in from my supplier, was surprised at the cost, $150.00 bucks a gallon :eek:

#16

One thing that you have to watch out for is the shelf life of the release. I’ve have had gallon cans go bad case a plug and mold to be destroyed. I then did a side by side test on the same surface with the same resin the old stuff definitely stuck and new can released like a dream. I now test the release with cheap 5 minute epoxy on really important stuff to make sure that it’s still good. You also want to religiously keep the caps on. Frekote pulls moisture out of the air to cure. If the cap is left off the stuff will go bad much earlier.

I’ve tried McLube, Zyvax, Chemlease, and Frekote…but never the Airtech stuff. I like Frekote so much that I quite trying others. I have heard that the new Chemlease #something or another is better for spraying clear-coats on because it’s less apt to fisheye. Once a person finds a system that consistently works it’s really hard to change.

Adam

#17

Yes, never change a working system.

I also saw that Meguiars have a liquid system now. Did not look into it properly though.

#18

I used the Meguires Velocity liquid release system for the first time on my paddle plug yesterday. Having used both Frekote and chemlease in the past. I wanted to try something a little more user friendly without stinking out the shop and having to wear a respirator. Pleased to report the Meguires is odorless and has worked well so far with the epoxy that I use at ambient temperature. Will be trying a elevated cure cycle next week with it.

#19

This exact thing happened to me recently on two small molds I made. I was actually near the expiration date of my Frekote and the parts got stuck. I am very careful with tightening the caps and they are stored in a room with a dehumidifier. I think no matter how you do it, Frekote becomes iffy within a year of the can being opened. I was actually able to get the parts out of the molds without trashing them, but now I have bits and pieces of resin stuck on my mold. I have to sit here and scrape the bits off, wet sand, and then polish. Lucky that my mold isnt ruined though. Even more reason that the small containers are great for small guys like me. I think I barely went through the 16 oz in a year.

#20

not sure as to the exact cause of spoilage but you might find that spraying a gas blanket available from most casting supply houses will extend the life. It’s also available in small spray cans.