Has anyone had any experience with a reusable vacuum bag that will stand up to Epoxy resin? I am using DER 330 resin and have tried it with the Arctek silicone as well as the green SmoothOn stuff. Both hold up for awhile, but then start to deteriorate.
How much pulls do you get? In my experience, you will still need to apply some sort of release system. 50 pulls should be doable.
It has been awhile since we have tried one since it didn’t seem to work too well. I think we maybe got 30 pulls or so. Would you suggest a liquid release applied to the bag?
Yes, to the bag.
30 pulls is not too bad. Which is where the problem lies. In the graph of no of pulls versus cost, silicone has no optimum compared to vac bag or VARTM.
I don’t have any experience with the Arctek silicone , but I do find the Smooth on silicone sprayed bags last longer than their brush on . If your are intent on using reusable bags try making them a little thicker if it suits the part your making . At that point you are making the cost/pull ratio even worse and it becomes more of a preference than an up front money saver .
If you pay an employee to do the final trim and finish you may be able to come out on the plus side , it could still be a wash though . HTH .
Good to know about the sprayed vs. brush on. I really do want to buy the system to spray the Smooth On bags for our polyester/vinylester parts.
Has anyone had experience with latex reusable bags and epoxy resin?
There are companies that make silicone bag conditioner. Call up the tech guys at Mosites Rubber and talk to them about it. Prolongs life of bag but each bag is unique in that elongation and material play a role in the life of the silicone. I have a SWORL system and love it. Have used MVP and Smooth On systems with limited success.
Dzerr…what would you estimate the cost initially with their system and then an average reusable bag material cost for say a 4’x5’ shallow mold ?
initial investment of under $5500 including kit and material. I was quoted $25 per ftsq to spray a mold. I have seen this as high as $35.
dzerr,
I’d pay $25-$35/sqft bag… I get usual quotes of $50/sqft here in California without guarantee of longevity.
-C
For a 5’x5’ mold size…that is about $1,250.00 !! One could go through an awful lot of bagging materials with that amount of cash. I realize it is a huge time saver as well…but the costs need to stay near $25-30 to be a good value in my book.
WorldWealth,
I can’t agree with you more. The time saving of reusable bags is a great benefit… but the cost quotes I’ve been supplied have all typically been in the $50/sqft range and its just hard to justify it. I figured the best way to save the time and the money would be to make the reusable’s myself… but I haven’t yet ventured into that realm.
It’s just “easier” for me (in some cases) to send my mold out and in less than a week have it returned with bag already made, ready to go… I’d do it a lot more often if the prices were lower.
-C
I tend to stay with that price as it is similar to my competition. I have a bag that has lasted over 100 parts but I don’t ask much as far as elongation or extreme temps either. Even if a bag starts to loose vac, I simply fire up the machine, spray on another layer or two and go again. Couldn’t be simpler. Try to do that with Sprayomer or SmoothOn or any other reusable bag material. Both are great materials and have their uses, but I am sold on SWORL. I am back from my trips and will get some pictures of the silicone ports that I use in my bag also some other tricks that I use on the cheap to construct triangle seals and vacuum channels while spraying up a bag.
dzerr,
Have you had experience with Sprayomer and SmoothOn bags? The Sprayomer technology seems attractive because it is not silicone based and we have some parts where we are not allowed to have silicone on certain surfaces because it interferes with paint later on.
I would love to see some pictures of some of your bags.
Great ! I am about to make my first brush-on bag and wanted to observe how people are best installing flow channels,vacuum channels, ports and any seal points.
I have had the privilege of using both. Every bag depends on the requirements of the part. Sprayomer is a latex based bag, but it has some inherent issues with elongation. I am not sure how to repair that material. We are just getting into that material for initial testing. The folks at SC Composites can get you more info. Bob Scrima Jr. is the man over there. The only thing that I like smooth on for is if I run out of SWORL. For me, SWORL is the way to go on most accounts. I do understand very well the silicone requirement as some of my more interesting parts are aerostructure. My day job is in composites R&D in aircraft composites. My night job is anything composites. I get to work with this stuff all day everyday. I have the best of both worlds. lol. By day I am using some fairly serious materials with a huge price tag. By night I am trying to find materials that produced the same result at a much much lower cost. Good by AirTech Green media and hello mesh snow fence! Well, not exactly a direct relationship. I have no loyalty to any bag system. I just know what most perform like and what you get for your dollar. Smooth on is perfect for someone who is just getting into the bag business or wants to experiment with materials. I use this material all the time. If I have to spray or produce a finished production bag, SWORL is my best friend.
Hello everybody,
it is so nice that someone here giving a comment on our SWORL technology. We would like to announce that this technology is availalbe in China. More information pls email to robert.perry@bookingits.com
Try stabond corp . on the spray silicone
call stabond Corporation …