resin infusion process planning help

I’m part of a student run race team currently designing the body for our car this year. Previous cars have used wet layup or alternative materials but this year I’d like us to try a resin infusion process. Really I need feedback on if I’m missing any steps/materials or overlooked anything because we’re on a budget so we try to avoid major errors if possible. :worried:

So here is our setup – we have a body computer model being developed. The model will be divided into 2 parts and 2 negative molds CNC’d in our machine shop. (We decided making a plug then mold then infusion would take too much time and money.) The molds will be machined at a high detail then hand sanding to the best possible finish. We’re still undecided on if the mold will be out of foam or MDF wood (I’m leaning towards mdf.) Either way it will be multiple panels glued together to the needed thickness.

The plan is to paint tooling gelcoat into the mold (so the final part surface will have a glossy finish) – we are not very concerned about the reusability of the mold, part of the competition is building new cars every year. However if we do mess something up it’ll be good to not have a ruined mold. We’re going with painting it on because we don’t have a spray gun and can’t justify buying one til we prove the process works.
Once the gelcoat fully hardens (would give it a week+) wet sand any imperfections and polish to glass finish. Use release wax (4+ coats?) – From what I’ve read we’ll stay away from PVA and stick with just wax. Then:

Lay in 1 layer 6k 4HS carbon fiber
Lay in core material to reinforce weak spots (leaning towards divinymat)
Lay in 1 layer 6k 4HS carbon fiber
Lay in 1 layer peel ply
Lay in 1 layer flow media (not sure which yet)
Lay in Inlet Tubing (leaning towards enkajacket or spiral tubing)
Lay in Outlet Tubing (would love MTI if we can find an American supplier otherwise we’ll go with spiral tubing and make our own resin traps)
Lay in bagging film (we have left over strechlon 200 but after some mixed posts on here we’ll consider alternatives like double bagging or bite the bullet and buy new material)

We’re going with only 2 layers of carbon fiber because it does not need to be structural but does need some stiffness and to be able to withstand impact forces of unlucky orange cones. :smiley: We’re planning on limited use of spray adhesive; given the mixed results on here I’d like to find better alternatives however we do have a lot of complex curvature so it may be needed. I’ve seen some mention of using clear gelcoat and or airtack both seem like possible solutions we need to test with. Would the gelcoat bond with the mold that has gelcoat on it or will the wax act as a barrier to keep them separate?

As far as our vac setup - I need to check what our shop air and venturi can pull and we have a secondary vac available we might set up depending so I’m not very worried about getting down to the pull we need. This will be a rather large part (estimated around 9ft x 5.5ft) so we’re still debating tube configurations. Running MTI or spiral tube around the perimeter of the mold and run a feed line straight down the middle seems like our best bet.

Given the size of the part we’re planning on using resin with at least a 60min pot life, I don’t know how long it will take to infuse but we have no experience on speeds and would rather be on the safe side. The resin/hardener we were looking at was in the 900cps range when mixed which after reading a lot on here is not what we want, so any suggestions on much lower viscosity systems would be appreciated. We’ve never bothered with degasing before but since we can weld together a pressure vessel pretty easily I’m going to push to have one made for a degas process.

There’s been some debate on how we can get such a large part to release and if release wax will be enough, we’re totally open to suggestions. So far jamming wedges in and blasting shop air into the gaps has been the only real suggestions floating around. Post release trim/polish/clear coat depending on how well it comes out.

We’ll be experimenting with the process in the coming months on a smaller scale and I’ll be sure to update this thread with pictures as we progress.

Thanks for any help!
-Dave

Suggestions:

Just release wax, will not be such a good idea, will need to get some Semi-Permanent Mold Release.

http://freemansupply.com/SemiPermanentSolve.htm

Also depending on the size I would look into getting some VE or Epoxy Infusion Resin with an CPS between 100-200 cps.

http://www.ccponline.com/includes/PDFs/IVEXC410.pdf
http://www.ccponline.com/includes/PDFs/IVSXH210.pdf
http://www.ccponline.com/includes/PDFs/RGPS-1100.pdf

MTI hose is no problem, we have a stock in the US and maybe we can sponsor you:)
Just write a mail.
Use PVA as release agent and a gelcoat, thats more safe and you can use spray adhesive without pulling the pva whenn repositioning the fabric.
Also use a rsein with a better viscosity and a much longer pot life, I would recommend 300min.

Plywood with a fiberglass surface layer that is machined for a decent surface to layup on has been done for test molds. They never were for production/making parts, just testing. I’m sure in your case it would work great for a low volume mold.

Mold release is a touchy topic. If you are not a seasoned composites fabricator I would suggest wax and pva to reduce the risk of mold damage. I can’t believe I suggested pva because I HATE the stuff but I’ve seen people ruin molds from not doing wax (only) or semi perms correctly. Wax only and semi perms are the best IMO.
http://www.nfgsales.com/products/release_agents/mold_release

Spray adhesives would work fine in your application as long as you use it very lightly. You don’t need much to get the fabric to stick.

It sounds like you have the disposable materials figures out. I would suggest MTI hose if possible.

Here is a good Epoxy with low CPS. You can give them a call and order directly from them, its not very expensive at all. If I remember correctly it is used for Wind blades. You can get 150cps and 360min pot life from this. http://rhinoliningsepoxy.com/products/systems/1401-21_~_4101-21/212/283

MTI hose?

Where can I get a sample? I’d like to make the move to 360* vacuum and I feel like that might be the ticket.

Okay so semi perm release and much much lower viscosity resin added to the shopping list. We’ll be doing several test pieces to get the process down before going full scale, I think we’ll add some pva to the list and compare results. DDCompound we’re always on the lookout for sponsors, I’ll send you a message once I have enough posts to unlock that feature.

Thanks for the suggestions guys!

Does anyone have any experience with cnc’ing a mold rather than plug? how different is the end finish? Also does using a clear gelcoat on the plug as the initial layer for the part improve the finish drastically? (after the mold with tooling coat fully dries using clear gel then putting in the cf)

Think about it this way, a plug is simply a mold for building molds. If you are only planning to build a few parts you should be ok. The finish of your plug will determine the finish of your part just like the finish of the plug would determine the finish of your mold and thus your part.

Depending on the part, you can go cheap, CNC a piece of harder EPS foam (60 or 80 kg/m3, or 4-5 lbs/ft3) and vacuum a stretchable bag into it. Cheap and fast, and used by many student teams to quickly produce parts.

Surface quality is not the best, but nothing that sanding can address.

Extensive sanding is something we would like to avoid this year, last year we did a wet layup that required several weeks of heavy sanding and patching over a large surface area.

On to new questions! With our current design we have a seam in the panels where two meet up that we want to hide or minimize, anyone have any good solutions? So far the best we have is try to incorporate a lip along the edge of one panel sort of like what an plastic easter egg might have and let the other panel overlap on that. Then it’s a matter of getting the panels to stay together under vibration but still be removable.

That Easter egg seam is called a joggle in composite aircraft terms. Check out this thread for Ideas.
http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/composites/9782-joining-composite-parts-halves.html