Race seat mould with undercut's - Help needed!

I’m struggling to get a good mould from a race seat that i have, and I’m hoping you can give me some advice and help.

This race seat is an infuse carbon part, but it has some metal insert on booth sides, to fix it to the car, making it impossible to make a “direct” mould of it.
I believe that this metal parts are glued with some epoxy glue, so it’s literally impossible to remove them.

The metal plates have around 2 ~ 2,5mm thickness and the “bolt” has around 4,5 mm.
As you can see from the pictures below, this metal parts create some undercuts and i’m not sure how can i overcome them.

The “bended” effect of the seat surroundings makes is harder to solve it.

Any help will be appreciated

Here’s some photos so you see what i’m talking about.


20131205_115014 por Nuno Santos - Add Less, no Flickr


20131205_114950 por Nuno Santos - Add Less, no Flickr


20131205_120802 por Nuno Santos - Add Less, no Flickr


20131205_120914 por Nuno Santos - Add Less, no Flickr

I would make it smooth with clay. Make a mold an fill the holes in the mold afterwards. If you aren’t going to make a lot of seats out of the mold just use gelcoat to fill the holes. Then sand it and polish. Don’t make the mold to thick so it’s a bit flexible. There is a change you won’t get it off. If you want to be sure you have to remove the metal or make a split mould for that area.

I would try to pop them off non the less. Drill out the rivets, and heat the plates with a heat gun. Even if you damage the seat slightly, it is easier to make a decent mould out of it than trying to work around the plates.

I agree, I would try to get the plates off. If that isn’t possible I would make a multi piece mold to get those sides. But really to be accurate you need to get those plates off.

I thought that Epoxy glue couldn’t be removed. Thanks for the tip Herman.
Do you have any ideia what temp should i get to, until the glue starts to give?

There’s no pop rivets holding the plates. it’s just glue.
Here’s another photo of the inside of the seat, also with some metal plates to reinforce those bolts.


20131205_114815 por Nuno Santos - Add Less, no Flickr

I guess 200C would be more than plenty. And some prying with a screwdriver. A couple of taps with a mallet could do the trick.

Nmicro pm me when you have time

Enviado do meu Nexus 7 através de Tapatalk

I think you must have some more post to be able to receive PM’s.

Mail me to nuno.maas (arroba) gmail

Ah thats why i cant sent pm lol

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If you have approval from the manufacturer to mould there product, I am sure they would provide you with a blank moulding.
I design my own seats. If I copied someone elses seat without their permission I would be stealing! Not just their design, but the hours that went into creating their design. And hours = dollars.
Get creative. That is the beauty of the material we work with.

Sorry, but the legal training in me wants to respond. I would see the issue this way:

If a design’s function cannot be removed from the aesthetics then it cannot be copyrighted. The fact that the function of the seat is to have a person sit in it, bars this item like other functional items (desk, table, etc.) from being copyrighted for its design because the function of its design is to support a person sitting and that cannot be removed from its aestheics. The ergonomics of this chair which wrap around a persons body’s could be a point of contention because one could argue that it is a removable aesthetic that has no function, but allowing a chair to curve or cup a humans back, shoulders, buttocks, and legs–or impressions of the human body–could be barred because: (1) it has a function because it is an ergonomic design (building products that conform to the human body to provide better comfort and function), and (2) because there are only so many ways to sculpt the back of a humans body, so allowing someone to have the copyright of that design would stymie innovation, thus a copyright would also not be allowed or would be contestable. So most likely a copyright of this design would not be available.

Patents however are a different issue. In some states, direct molding of an item is not considered reverse engineering (which is the way around some Intellectual Property law) and it would be barred. So in those jurisdictions, if he is subject to them, this would illegal if he was planning on selling it. However, my question would be: (1) is there a patent?; and (2) is this person planning on distributing? If the answer is yes to the first, I would still argue that a person making a copy of a product to recreate it in carbon fiber or another composite form–even if that product comes in carbon fiber-- would not be stealing. For instance, perhaps he has one seat and wants to build another so that he has two seats that remain in his possession/ownership. As long as he is not selling or distributing, then he is not harming the producer. This reminds me of the legal cases that surrounded VCRs. The tv and movie companies argued something similar, but essentially saying that it was stealing because people were making unauthorized copies of their work; however, the US Supreme Court decided against them, finding that if it was for personal use then it could be allowed because preventing it would stymie innovation. For as long as it was not being distributed or sold, it did not hurt the creators interests. This particular ruling allowed us to not only have VCRs and other recording devices, but eventually lead to Tivos and DVDRs. I would believe that this is exactly how they would view an unauthorized reproduction for a hobbyist. If no patent exists and there is no distribution, I would argue the same thing, except in this scenario the creator has zero claim to stop the unapproved reproduction.

Still, I would argue that this project is no different from the 99% of all composite products that hobbyist build that have zero adaption or modification of a product’s original shape or design. Most products that people build for hobby, are standard direct molding–take a part, make a mold, make a new part. We see this constantly whether it be a motorcycle fairing, a cello, guitar, rc car lexan body , etc.; people take another persons design and build it in a composite material.

I sympathize and respect your feelings on the matter as I’ve been in the same situation with people copying products of mine, but I think the legal issues for this particular product are tricky and if the person is not planning distribution then it is not harming the creator.

So that’s my two cents.

Some people have no skill/creativity outside of copying…it sucks but that’s all I see most people doing…

It is an ugly thing to witness in my opinion as well. The integrity to steal a design all the while possibly not going through the correct channels or steps to build in safety or increase it.
“What you don’t know ,won’t kill you” is a phrase that seems to be the final mindset.

Perhaps a leading composites forum, the moderators might consider this type of content to be policed or at the least,educated. Or even a ban.

You do very quick assumptions based on some photos…

You could ask first why i need to take this mould.

You can ban me if you think thats the right thing to do.

enviado telepaticamente

Ok, I’m asking then. Please tell us so we can grasp your intent.

Of course we are under assumptions here. If your making/repairing your personally owned seat, my apologies.

This discussion is because a guy that wake up in a bad mood? This is a learning/experience share forum or what? If he is repairing his seat, or even copying for learning proposes and NOT COMERCIAL what’s the problem?

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There are several reasons to splash a mould from something existing. Even commercial reasons, and more than often within laws, or with consent of the Original manufacturer.

On top of that, this forum is relative small and benefits from every user.

So let’s be smart, and get this thread back on track.

Gez… And to think I wanted to make a few seats for office chairs or like a living room chair to sit on…

On a side note, some manufacturers advertise as carbon fiber, but only use one layer and the rest fiberglass… Maybe he wants to make himself a full carbon fiber seat that’s not offered by that specific manufacturer.

Its the INTERWEBS guys. The written word isn’t often read as clearly as a conversation whilst we all stand together in person. Often quite the contrary.

I mean its not like pulling a mold from a automotive panel is an original design either, but its to make it from CF and not copy it in steel. Same, yet different. Do as you will. But I personally won’t do it. It will either be shape modified or material modified or morphed but it won’t remain as someone else’s design and just copied. I have to much respect for others. It is hard work and they earned the outcome.