Large scale production carbon goods

Have any of you guys professionally created and sold carbon fibre goods in large quantities? if yes please share any experiences :slight_smile:

I have a good idea for a product and want to get it designed and manufactured professionally but have zero idea where to look for such things. im in the middle of getting a company started but want to get all my ducks lined up before i really invest. Im located in Toronto ON if that helps at all

Wht is a large scale production for you?

Lets say, 1000 ready-to-sell units to starts

Wich size, layup, sandwich etc.

I set up a small production unit last year for the commercial production of carcon fibre in the UK.

I found that the first issue was finding a unit to rent. After a long saerch I found an old factory that has been converted into offices and workshops for small businesses. I have a unit that is 500 sqare feet (16.5 x 30.0) with a front door and roller shutter and painted concrete floor, painted block walls and painted plaster ceiling. I got it on a licence so that business rates are included within my rent which is £9,000 per year. I pay extra for the electricity I use, for a telephone and for a dada connection. I also paid up front to have a sink unit installed with hot and cold water. Unfortunately, it is a 30 minute drive from where I live.

I spent £1,500 on benches, shelving, desk and chairs; £4,000 on an Air Bench; £1,000 on tools (pumps, gel gun, air compressor, catch pot, etc); £1,500 on consumables (bagging material, infusion resins, mould making materials, wax, brushes, cups, etc).

I then bulk bought 200m of reinforcement fabric direct from a manufacurer at £10/m2.

So, I moved in having invested approx £10,000 and committed to a years rent of £9,000.

I make panel parts for cars so I needed to purchase parts to use as plugs, this costs money but saves time as I only needed to get them 2K coated and flatten them and they are ready to use. Mould making is quite time consuming and I probably spent 12 weeks making 10 moulds. I work on my own and aim to produce 3 parts per week which equates to 150 a year. I imagine 2 people could work in my unit but it wouls be tight and my shelving is already full so I expect more space would be needed for inventry.

I’m not sure if you want to manufacture 1,000 pieces a year or need an initial stock of 1,000 parts to start trading. Can you clarify what your annual production figures will be.

Things you may want to consider are;

  1. Heating - Most units I looked at were tinned roof sheds and would be impossible to heat. I am lucky in that I have units behind me, either side of me, an internal corridor in front of me and an office above me. Over Oct, Nov and Dec last yeat I tried space heating the whole unit to 20 deg celciius and it was costing me £350 per month in electricity. Now I use a heated box to store resin and build a tent over my work to heat it locally. I have found that resin is very sensitive to temperature and heating is a major consideration.

  2. Ventilation - Any products that contain styrene will give off vapours. I use specialis masks amd am lucky that my landlord and neighbours do not object to the odours. I am looking into having some extract ventilation installed which will also suck out the precious heat!

  3. Fire risk - The products are very flammable.

  4. Storage - From my experience you should calculate what space you need to store things (moulds, plugs, packaging, product) and double it.

  5. Waste - I generate a lot of waste that needs to be disposed of. Also, empty resin containers need special disposal which is awkward and expensive.

  6. Costs - I am amazed how much the costs of everything drops when you order in bulk.

At present I am only producing by vacuum infusion. I need to get into pre preg so am looking for an oven and freezer - all more expense and the need for more space. There is no way that I want to get into autoclave manufacture; that’s a whole different league.

I hope that the above helps and good luck with your plans; please share your progress with us.

Find someone who can help you make prototypes and advise processing etc.

Then find a factory offshore that has experience using these processes or already makes similar products and have them made there.

First thing is prototype… well before this is good design. Do your testing and analysis to ensure the part can live up to the loads and expectations. Especially if it’s anything that will cause you to liability down the road. Then prototype, do some more testing, and finalize designs.

Most of the costs are in the front end on the design side.

As for production. You can find shops that are proficient in producing an item. If you design is complete and you have tools made, then a good shop should have no issues making good parts. Some have suggest off shoring things to find cheaper labor, this may or may not be a good choice. If the design is complex and has high tolerances, like an airplane, than off shoring can be trouble some. Cessna did this and had some major issues.

If it’s a ‘simple’ part, sending the work out of country could be good. Other wise I"m sure there are some good people here or in canada that can get the job done. You might have a higher labor cost, but doing things overseas has other issues.

Also there are many different processes that can be used, so you should consider which process would be the most cost effective and efficient for your parts. Same goes for reinforcements and matrix. I think I have a costing spread sheet from a workshop I took… there are various ways to combine the numbers and do a good cost analysis. Again, more research! :smiley:

From your post it doesn’t sound like you’re planning to start your own production shop? That’s another discussion i think.

And you got me curious now… What sector is your idea in?

Thank you all for the great advice and stories… its all helping me go forward in the right direction in terms of decision making.

@sammymatik No im not looking to start my own production shop as that has much higher capital cost. And as for the product idea… i cant say, my school offers a pro bono legal clinic and theyve advised me not to say anything :stuck_out_tongue:

After i look into patents and have the product made it will be public. I have simplified the design enough which will help me save money on the prototyping end of things. Im doing a lot of research on matrixes at this point and designing a good logo for the company name (which is not yet registered). This is my next step. From there hopefully I can get it made…

sounds like fun!

You can get a provisional patent very easily. I’ve done this for a friend… it was fairly easy and the patent office has made it a digital process now. You just need to write up the paper work and provide a few drawings and you can put the patent pending on your product with the patent number. It’s not the same as a full patent but a lot of people do this because they’re ready to put their product to market before the full patent is through the patent process.

http://www.uspto.gov/patents-getting-started/patent-basics/types-patent-applications/provisional-application-patent

Though I find that the making part to be easier than the marketing part for me… What’s your plan on marketing and distribution? Have you thought about the after it’s made part? This is an area I’d love to learn more about.

I look forward to seeing your project spread it’s wings :wink:

@ Ardente. Hi regarding the waste resin/gel barrels, These now get collected FOC by my local scrap man. May be worthwhile you looking in to this. It may save a few pound

I would be interested in helping you with your project

Without knowing the size of the product, have you looked into shipping? i did a small run of metal parts for 66-67 chevelles and it was the shipping that killed me and I eventually stopped cause it cost more to ship the part than it cost to build.

Shipping has indeed gone insane for me as well. It has more than doubled in a couple years. Pretty sure it’s the Amazon tax I’m paying. Amazon beats up the shippers for great rates and we get to cover the difference.