I am attempting infusion for the first few times.
I’m making a carbon fiber wheelchair back.
I’m using 2 layers of 270gsm 2x2 carbon twil with a sonic core material in between the 2 layers.
Also using peel ply and green infusion mesh.
My problem is that all the resin seems to run through way too fast. It runs out of the ends of the spiral tube and runs fast right over to the open end of the other spiral tube on the other end while the center stays nearly dry.
I’m trying to upload more photos but keep getting an error message about this website.
I went through WAY too much resin. Which is ad tech 820 with slow hardener. It’s epoxy resin. Low viscosity. After the edges wetted out the ends of the spiral tube sucked up so much resin that it filled my catch pot and began to exotherm. The center was still not wetted out, but then air became littered all throughout the part. Even the edges that were completely wet now had air in it. The vacuum line kept sucking air in.
So I clamped off the ends, removed the catch pot and resumed to pull vaccume. I still had air all through my part. But when I did a leak down test, I didn’t have any leaks. That’s what’s messing with my mind.
Am I running the spiral line too long?
Should I close off the ends of the spiral tube?
Should I add or remove infusion mesh in places?
Thanks for any help.
I’ll try and get pictures up as soon as I can figure out why this won’t let me.
Better if you upload pictures to see your configuration, but basically you don’t need infusion mesh when utilize Soric, it already works like that.
Some pictures.
What’s going on here?
I often use infusion mesh over Soric anyway, Soric works as a flow media but it’s quite slow. Depends what the layup is and part size etc. but it shouldn’t matter too much. It won’t flow faster with Soric AND infusion mesh, it will simply flow as fast as the infusion mesh allows.
I suggest putting in a brake zone on the vacuum side of the part for a start. Place the vacuum port and spiral on a piece of peel ply and nothing else, don’t have it on your part or any flow media. Placing a small piece of breather fabric underneath the port can also choke the resin flow and stop it all being evacuated from your part.
Theb, if it is racing up the edges first, consider using a shorter feed spiral, or stopping the infusion mesh short of the edges. You could also double the infusion mesh through the centre, but this probably isn’t necessary and just wastes resin. Also, do you need the spiral on the vacuum side, can you use just the port?
Easier to give specific advise if you can post some pictures of your configuration, as Steyrn said.
Set up
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/i3agvjhschreflu/AAALO8ZVHW2Up49SSh834U_pa
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/t84qk8cdo473w3n/AAB6EvwOZYNAtoOEdW8_5H7Ca
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/xqa6whgde651wgf/AABmBBMclCxPZSvBeP6or4dNa
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/5wwxdwpghmmnw86/AAAgvCuum21NK7wyVKBUunGga
During Infusion
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/ap4mbfl0gli5wjg/AADjNVIs5xMezHO-kJlE5ucEa
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/fm7zkfz927tmxfl/AABdkaQhpbu2ELj2QNk-U0fha
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/7kwmy2lx2elz1r3/AACtCRw-IN8B1tiCue3sQR_xa
Sorry for the links, cant seem to post a picture an easier way.
Im not sure if I need spiral tubing under the vacuum line or not. Im just going off of what I’ve found on the internet and YouTube watching composite tutorials, mainly from easycomposites. It is 3 ply of mesh under the spiral tubing on the vacuum side.
Thanks for the comments and suggestions
From your pictures, the most important is that you don´t have brake zone in the vacuum side, but you have a highway for the resin trip with the 3 ply of mesh under spiral vacuum line!!!.
Also your spiral feed line and vacuum line are so big, although this is not your main problem, same for infusion mesh.
Hanaldo give you all the solutions in his post, read it carefully and change your configuration in accordance.
If that picture was taken soon after the infusion finished, or during it, you probably also have some air leaks somewhere. Did you a do a drop test before you started the infusion?
Yep I did a drop test, but I didn’t wait very long,only a minute or so. I didn’t see any change on my vacuum gauge so onward I went.
I’ll be waiting 5-10 minutes from now on.
So it sounds like I need to get away from any infusion mesh under the vacuum port and spiral tube and just tape it down on top of some peel ply.
Question: perforated vs non perforated peel ply?
I’ll also shorten the spiral feed and vacuum tube up so they don’t go so close to the edges.
What exactly are resin breaks?
Would putting breather under the vacuum port be about the same as turning down the vacuum?
Thanks for the info
You definitely had leaks, even 5-10 minutes isn’t long enough for a drop test. If you’ve just got an analogue gauge, you need to test for ATLEAST 30 minutes. If you’ve got a digital gauge then you can do a test over 10 minutes, but I still test for at least an hour if I can.
Resin brake is exactly that, an area without any infusion mesh or other fabric that can facilitate flow, so once the resin reaches it the flow slows down dramatically. A layer of peel ply doesn’t facilitate the flow of resin, but it does spread the vacuum easily.
Breather under the port is not the same as lowering the vacuum, you should never lower the vacuum with infusion. Breather cloth simply soaks up a lot of resin, so instead of the resin being drawn out if the part straight away, it needs to wet out the breather first. Just another way to buy time and prevent your catch pot from being filled.
Your part is very simple though. For one you don’t need the spiral on the vacuum side, just use the port. I would even suggest ditching the spiral feed on the inlet side, your part is small enough to do without it. Second, your part is small enough to ditch the flow media and allow the Soric to do the same job. Just place flow media underneath the resin feed and overlapping the Soric by 2 inches. Then setup your brake zone on the vacuum side of the part, google for pictures if you are still unsure how that should look.
hmmm i kinda had that same problem … those bubbles … it wasnt my tapes … it wasnt my feed / vacuum lines … it was some micro punctures that the mesh did to the baggin man …
yeap … lots of them at the same time , kinda the same as those pics u posted
If the mesh is puncturing your bag, then your bag isn’t suitable for infusion.
All you can see in those pictures is that it had a leak, it’s impossible to say where it came from or what caused it.
Ok I was concerned about the bag.
I made one before this one and used the green stretching bag. It ripped on the tubing and everywhere. So I used this pink bag film that is quite a bit thicker and less strechy,but still advertised as stretchable bagging film.
So now I’m using the thickest non stretch stuff I have. Hoping the mesh or anything else won’t cause leaks in it after I start.
So, I reckon the plan is to not use any infusion mesh except under the resin feed line and overlap the part by about 2 inches.
Then I’ll only have the vacuum port on some peel ply with 2 ply of breather under the port.
I’ll only use peel ply on the part, no mesh.
Shorten up the feed spiral line a little
Drop test for at least 30 minutes.
Thanks for the info. I plan on infusing this part in the morning. So any last minute additional advice is appreciated along with the help so far.
I’ll post how it turns out.
Read the MTI thread in product talk, there is everything written you should know about infusion.
Overlap the infusion mesh and the Soric by 2 inches, not just the part. If you stop the mesh before it reaches the Soric then you’ll be in trouble.
Also, don’t shorten the feed spiral if you aren’t using the mesh, run it the width of the part. Also 2 plies of breather will just waste resin, you just need 1 small square underneath. You don’t even need that, it just slows the resin down again. Half the infusions I do these days I end up clamping everything before it even gets close to the breather.
Otherwise your plan sounds good, so long as you have no leaks I’m sure it will work.
Thanks.
And just to be clear, with soric I do not need any peel ply or release film on the part? Is this true? I can use release or peel ply just under the feed line and vacuum port?
Use peel ply or release film across the whole part. You don’t have mesh, so you could get away without it, but they give you a much nicer finish on the back and avoid potential issues.
Here is what my part looked like after 30 min.
It still didn’t work.
As soon as I Un clamped the feed line, I lost a lot of vacuum on that side of the part. The resin pooled on top of the peel ply and didn’t saturate down into the fabric.
Anybody have a clue as to what’s going on?
Here it is after an hour
Thanks
I did a different part yesterday. It was a smaller square piece. I had issues with it too
Seems like all the resin just ran on top of the part. The bottom layers didn’t get wet at all. I wasn’t using soric, bit rather just poster board type foam as a core. So I used green infusion mesh on top. Is flowed nice, still getting holes in my bag, but the bottom of my part is bone dry.