I'm about to place my first order...need some advice.

General Composites Discussions Products Talk
#1

Hello Everyone,

This is a great site. I’ve read every single post so far and it’s very informative. I believe I have a firm understanding of the general process, materials, and equipment needed to start learning fiber fabrication.

I’d like to start out small my making a few automotive trim components. I’m planning to order a few yards of CF fabric, epoxy, consumables, a vacuum pump system and supplies.

Here’s where I need some advice.

  1. I’m have a difficult time deciding which vacuum pump system to get. I’d prefer to get a whole system (pump, valves, tubing, etc.) from a single source, but I’m open to piece-mealing it myself if necessary. I’m considering the following pumps:
    a.) AUTO-VAC BAGGING SYSTEM from http://www.acp-composites.com/acp-vbs.htm
    b.) CD-1000 Vacuum Bagging System from http://www.tapeease.com/vacuum_bags.htm

Any feedback on either of these systems? I’m hoping to keep it under $350 for all the vacuum bagging components. However, I’ve noticed most of the “entry-level” pumps are limited to 20-25" Hg. Is this going to be an issue since I’ve been reading that 27" Hg is the ideal range.

  1. My next question is regarding the epoxy. I’ve been considering the System Three epoxy product line up from www.fiberglasssupply.com . They also have a Clear Coat epoxy that offers UV protection. I’ve also looked at West Systems and US Composites. I want the epoxy to be clear when it is dry. What does everyone recommend and how much should I order initially?

I really appreciate everyone’s input. I’m very eager to place my order.

Thanks!

#2

Hi Vinny,

Welcome. I checked out the 2 systems that you have linked to and they both have their pluses and minuses. The tapeease kit uses materials that I am not too familiar with. The kit from acp-comp seems like a good one for starters with smaller projects. I think your best bet is to call these people up, tell them what you plan on making/doing and see if their kit is good for what you want to do. Personally I would just get the materials and locate a pump separately. You’ll save a lot of $$$.

My first pump is a small teeny 1/4 hp with no more than 2-3 CFM. It only pulled 17Hg but that was plenty enough for me at the time. I am now running the 3/4 hp pulling 28Hg and that thing can suck.

As for resin, just read the MFG labels regarding the cure property. They should say amber/clear or something to that effect. I have used the US Composites laminating resin before and it does turn out clear. Sorry but I know very little about System Three other than that it exists. The one thing about the Klear Koat epoxy is that it is not the cure-all of UV protection. I believe it’s only 80% UV protected. Either way it’s meant to be used indoor although it is “good enough” for outdoor use. You still need to use 100% UV protected automotive clear coat if you want to prevent your pieces from turning amber over time.

Did I miss anything? Oh yeah, I buy all my supplies/materials from various vendors. It’s more of a hassle but I save a lot of $$ that way.

Evan

#3

Thanks so much for the information. I’m definitely planning to purchase my supplies from various vendors. I’ve already located decently priced fabric, bagging materials, and tools.

However, I’m still stuck on which vacuum pump to purchase. http://www.tapeease.com/vacuum_bags.htmhas the CD100 pump for $229.99 They say it pulls 25" Hg at 1 CFM. I’m not agaist purchasing a pump separately, but I just want to make sure I get all the necessary accessories and whatnot.

It looks like the pump comes with a gauge but nothing else. What other connectors/accessories should I order?

Thanks!

#4

connectors and stuff like that is better done at your local hardware store. 25hg at 1CFM is good to start with although I’d try to up the CFM a little bit if possible.

Evan

#5

Yes, I’d like to find a pump with a higher CFM rating but that takes me out of the price range I was hoping to stay in. However, I found one at www.fiberlay.com that’s 1/3HP, 4.5CFM, 26"Hg. The only bad thing is shipping is $78! Wow.

I’m thinking I’ll stick with this so I’d rather spend a little extra now on a pump instead of having to buy a bigger pump in a couple of months.

I just cannot believe how much the initial outlay of cash is. :cry:

#6

Yeah fiberlay is a decent source. And yes, those are heavy suckers. And yes, it’s not cheap. And no, this is not for everyone. Everyone wants to try, but the costs involved will turn 95% of them away easily. Plus the cost of all of the materials that you’ll have to throw away if a piece doesn’t come out right or if something goes wrong. That’s just how it is. Good luck though and let me know if you need any help.

Evan
p.s. I still have my small pump sitting around if you want it. It’s ready to go. You just need to buy the 1/4" inside diameter hose/line and the vacuum cup to connect to your bag.

#7

Yes, I agree the barrier to entry is definitely the cost. However, I’m very committed to giving this a try so I’m not too worried about the money…I just want to make sure I get the right supplies and equipment the first time.

BTW, the small pump you have…what are the specs and how much are you asking for it? I’m interested if this is a good way for me to get started and save some $$$ at the same time. Thanks!

#8

It’s a Thomas pump with 1/4 hp motor and I do not know the exact CFM. Probably minimal. I ran it for about 3-4 months totalling about 15-20 parts. The biggest part that I was able to run on this was the front bumper lip. You can have it for $50 if you want. I have no use for it now.

Evan

#9

That’s awesome! I just sent you an email. I hope this works out. I’d love to save some money on the pump up front just in case I either do not like the fabrication process or just flat out stink at it. LOL. :slight_smile:

#10

Got your email. We’ll handle it from there.

Evan

#11

Thanks! Can’t wait to get my hands on it. :smiley:

#12

Vinny, I saw that you linked to the AutoVac system, but since others are going to come along and read this (hopefully) looking for info, ACP-composites.com also has their EZ-Vac system. It only pulls 7-8" of mercury, but for guys looking to do small cosmetic work who don’t want to invest a large amount of money into a serious pump it’s perfect.

I believe they sell the pump alone for $75, and it’s about the size of an aquarium air pump. You’d just need to add the hose, t-fittings, and bag connector to use it. For $100, they sell a kit that comes with the pump, hose, fittings, bag connector, breather, peel ply, release wax, and mylar. This is the pump I first started with when I got into vacuum bagging, and while it’s a bit underpowered for serious work and larger projects, it works really, really well for small ones. You can also use two of them for larger pieces.