I need some sub-contracting advice...

General Composites Discussions Composites Talk
#1

I recently quit my job where I was the only vacuum bagging/resin infusion employee.

So now Ive been offered some work by the company that I used to work for. 90 military helicopter parts (being intentionally vague). There only 7"x7". So its a quick part to bag.

They offered me $13.33 a piece, which is quite a bit less than I made hourly. Yet it takes me roughly 45 minutes to lay each part up. But plain and simple…thats way to little money, and a little insulting at that.

All materials, etc… will be covered by them. All Im using is my labor/knowledge. But now any error will come out of my pocket.

Any advice from you business owners out there? Im kind of dead set on doing the job for $26.50 a piece. Also keep in mind that if I dont do it, they will have to do it themselves…and that will cost way more than $26.50 a piece…plus they are not so great at it.

Feel free to IM me if you dont feel like responding here.

#2

imo, if their supplying materials…

then you have to calculate your labor / time.
you said 45 mins? for 1… hmm… so an 8 hr day…you can make roughly 13 parts? lets say 13 * 12$'s… 156$s a day… *5 780$s a week. thats crap. sorry…

you will have to be able to produce ATLEAST 25 parts a day to be happy imo. 25 parts * 5 days, = roughly 1200-1300$'s. now, how much would china charge someone to make these? think about it hard, if they really wanted to they would of done it… try asking for more, but you cant just ask… coming from me, i always make an analysis chart, put #'s together… show them it doenst work, not even if somoene else were to make it. what if they give you more then just that 1 part? if you made 3-4 diff parts in that 1 hr, then it is beneficial 2 you.

#3

They’re not contracting for your time. That’s irrelivant. It doesn’t matter if it takes you 45 mins or 5 mins to lay up a part. They’re contracting for your skills, knowledge and your ability to deliver. These in any trade/skill/profession don’t come cheap.

You need to figure in how much you believe you’re worth. For this type of work I’d estimate no less than $30/hr minimum. If you’re really really good double that.

If you’re making your living from doing this you have to take into consideration all the overhead, taxes, health ins, workers comp, facilities, tools etc. They should understand that as it was part of what it cost them to have you as an employee.

Return them a quote (about $30/part) and don’t undervalue your expertise. Remember you’re a sub contractor now not an employee.

#4

Must be for the new Apache helicopters. Our company made some prototype parts for the Apache electronics assembly… heat sinks to cool off the batteries and sub assemblies. The US Military is buying like 100 of these birds. It’s not the old Apache… it’s the very latest edition/upgrades. They build them here in Mesa AZ. We make all the heat sinks for the electronics on board. I think the contract is a 6 billion $ deal the US is paying out for them.

I was just guessing the Apache… maybe they are building for another bird.

#5

Knotty: Great advice! Kind of along the lines of what I was thinking. Thanks for chimming in!

Luis: Problem is that there are only 5 molds. Each needs to sit for 24 hours before demold. I can speed this up a bit via dry heat. But that would mean two shifts a day to pull 10 parts. And doing it that way would almost ensure that I would damage at least one part due to demolding early. Not for me.

At the moment the pump has the capacity to handle 4 parts at a time. By the time Im ready to draw vacuum on the 5th part I can unhook the 1st part from the pump. I do have the option to pour some more molds. We have a female silicone master, that we pour/pull males from. Then I can cycle 7 molds or so.

You can see why my price no doubt has to go up since its a per part price were settling on. 5 x $13 is ridiculous.

Fast: Your really close!

#6

i didnt say demold or “speed” up your process… its more of increase your army. instead of 5 molds, see if you can make a mold. make it 8. time is everything, and skill = less time. and knotty… time is not a factor for the employer… more for use on the JRL’s side. even if it took him 1 min, he still has to pay himself for that 1 min.

#7

I don’t think I’d do it for less than $20 per hour. how many ever parts that figures out to be. And that is with them supplying all the materials and supplies.

Professional machine shop rate is around $75-$100 per hour… so composites work should not be much less than that imo. Sounds to me like they just want to " low ball" you because they think they can… and you quit on them so it’s time for them to get even so to speak.

#8

Thats how I see it. I figure they think Im “green” to this situation and easy to manipulate…but meanwhile I did their ordering for the past year. So I know how much they spend on material. In this case all the molds were made using excess material from another order…So labor was the only direct expense.

And Im definitely not ignorant in terms of how much money is available when you attach the word “military” to your order.

I think Im going to stick with knotty’s price tag. If they dont take it… Ill go fishing.

#9

Yep… military orders generally do fetch more.

I guess one way to look at your old companies offer is… how much time will it take and how much money could you make in that time doing your own stuff.

I don’t want to be a jerk to some company i know nothing about, but it just seems their offer isn’t all that great if they are offering you $13 -14 per part.