I tend not to use my respirator while using epoxy because it doesn’t make me sick like PER does. How bad is this for me?
A lot of the new epoxies are really quite safe. One quick wiff of hardener though, and it makes you wonder.
Just be sure to have adequate ventilation, even if you don’t smell anything.
check msds for isocyanates these cause nerve damage i have seen people in the body shop buisness with lots of problems charcol respirator dont work air supply the only protection
on the other side (poly resins) i have seen people who worked in local factory 40+ years and retire with no problems if poly resins are making you sick you are probably alerigic to them either way watch for isocynates!!!
This is a friend of mines writing, he makes and sells epoxy:
"Epoxy is also NOT a carcinogen. That has been well proven by OSHA and many others in industry. What epoxy is, is a skin sensitizer. This varies greatly between different epoxy systems depending on different companyÕs formulations. Most older epoxy hardeners are formulated with a chemical known as TETA or another called DETA. These base hardeners are in the aliphatic amine family, are very reactive, somewhat unstable, quite toxic and easily can cause sensitization of the skin (or dermatitis). Most of these hardeners are also modified with phenol and formaldehyde. Phenol is what dermatologists use for chemical skin peels and increases TETA and DETA’s toxicity to the skin dramatically. Many of these older hardeners are up to 50% phenol. Formaldehyde is also no picnic as it also increases risk because of it’s ability to act as a vehicle for the phenol and amines through the skin and into the blood system. By the way, the reason these epoxy hardeners are still used today is because they’re CHEAP. DETA and TETA cost 1/5 what a modern diamine based hardener costs to produce. Anyone who has worked with many of the West System epoxies are familiar with these low cost systems.
Modern epoxy hardeners are nothing like their 60’s counterparts. As I mentioned above, they are formulated with modern diamines and have vastly reduced incidences of sensitization. They also have lower vapor, better color, better finish, and lower exotherm. They contain NO phenol and NO formaldehyde. Our company was one of the first in the US to formulate and market diamine based epoxy hardeners 20 years ago which gives us an edge in experience with these chemicals. As superior as they are they still must be respected as skin sensitizers. The simple way to eliminate problems related to dermatitis in the workplace is to reduce or preferably eliminate contact with the skin. This means gloves. That’s it. We wear disposable vinyl gloves. Vinyl is preferable to rubber because rubber gloves are also skin sensitizers. The other, even more harmful, ingredient is contaminated acetone. Like formaldehyde above it is a vehicle for toxins into the bloodstream. Fortunately epoxy can be cleaned up with soap and water. Not standard bar soap but with products like Go-Jo and Fast Orange. These products are water based and don’t act as a vehicle the way VOC solvents do.
In 20 years of producing epoxy surfboards we have NEVER had one incidence of dermatitis in our shop. I have also NEVER seen a case of dermatitis that didn’t have something to do with the co-toxin acetone. Given the aforementioned resin parameters and if shop practice adheres to the above suggestions, epoxy resins are MUCH safer to use for producing surfboards than their polyester counterparts.
Bottom line, 1. wear disposible vinyl gloves 2. don’t use acetone 3. work in well ventilated areas 4. clean skin with GoJo or another waterless cleaner 5. Shower after work including hair 6. Don’t leave sanding dust on your skin for long periods."
That was an awesome bit of info…
I have the worst habit of playing in the acetone. It comes from years of being around solvents working as an engine builder.
I may just have to stop doing that dumb stuff.
Great information there Glenn!
I posted this before and I wanted to repeat it here again as this was told to me directly from a VP of a major resin manufactor:
Even tho some companies recently have came out and claim that you can safety spray newly reformulated Epoxy resins, 4x guys at this manufacturer was in the spray booth while spraying these so call safe to spray Epoxies and like 2 or 3 still had bad reactions to the epoxy. This was with full haz. mat suits and rebreathers too!:eek:
I just wanted everyone to know this fact!
OK just my .02c dont play with anything you dont know CHECK THE DAMN DATA SHEETS FIRST there is a lot of info on the net. no mater what you are using you can finde the DATA SHEET INFO on anything you want. IF you can not find it ask here. Beater safe than sorry!
Yes, the MSDS sheets (you should also keep a book with all of them in there for yourself and employees) which should came with every item you buy to use making composites.
But none of those sheet tell you NOT TO USE SOLVENTS for cleanup with epoxy. For years I used solvents for cleanup and went through many 55 gallon drums of the stuff, always wiping it off my skin with solvents. I guess I’m one of the lucky ones to not end up with skin reactions to it. Some are more sensitive than others I guess.
Again LOOK at the MSDS for the above mentioned SOLVENT.
me too… acetone fixes everything in my book… i know its bad but if ive spent all day fibreglassing and gelcoating and etc and im covered in the shit… it could either take a few days to come off by showering or 2 secinds in an acetone bath.
ive never had any bad reactions to anything either… apart from if i walk into the booth after a big gel coat spray session and the styrene in the air makes my nose start running like a tap and my eyes wanna fall out of my head.
ive never used a mask when glassing or laying up, even with PER… i thought about it but then we switched over to the LSE style resin (low styrene emission) and it does a great job.
poly funnily enough makes you feel sick but isnt really too bed. ive had a few friend though get very sich from epoxy, one in paticular needed steriods to calm his glands down so he could breathe. SP claims their ampregs dont cause pox but im not a believer. in my experience, the more “high tech” the hardeners are the worse things get.
could well be s tupid question but just brushing epoxy and poly resin is safe yes ?
Working with chemicals can hardly be described as ‘safe’!
It’s like anything else - crossing the road, driving a car, it’s all about reducing the risks and how far you go towards doing this.
epoxy fumes alone, let alone contact can cause poisoning in some people. anything from headaches or eczema through to swollen glands and breathing difficulty. once you get pox thats it, you will always be sensitised.
Something in West System epoxy does not go well with me…unless I’m in a super well ventilated area, I get a ridiculous 6-hour headache and feel like complete garbage.
I get some skin irritation when working with epoxies although i wear gloves and breathing mask. It’s getting really annoying sometimes and now i tend to wear full clothes (no part of the body exposed)to overcome this. Ι dont get any headache (or think so) as my mask is really good, only skin irritation which lasts for a couple of days or even more.
I recommend wearing nitrile gloves under latex gloves. Latex gloves do not protect from epoxy at all. I am allergic to tooling epoxy bad, even if I get none on me my hands swell and hive. Regular epoxies usually dont bother me aslong as I use nitriles under latex and change the latex every 10mins or so.
I bet the only gloves impervious to resin has the aluminum lining.