Just as a matter of interest, wonder if people posting here regarding various infusiuon processes, are already pretty conversant with hand laminating?
Chris
I can tell you that I am not really all that great with it.
My hand laminating parts end up heavy and soaked.
I bought a bristle roller and it didnt do anything but snag my cloth and try to lift it.
I dont know the proper uses of the hand tools of hand laminating so I just keep with my infusion. I imagine I could use some more skills in that area to be honest.
Hand laying up should be learn and understanded before the more advance techniques, but to each their own.
My students will learn:
Weighing and figuring out cataylst to resin %'s (actually, drops per oz. first so they will burn up a few LDPE molds…then the correct way)
The different reinforcements and ply orentations
test panels with different material vs strength
Gel coats (pigmenting, use of and applications)
and hand lay ups / chopper gun
Then later on, vacuum bagging and VIP
this may be off topic, but…
I wish I lived in California. Although I already do hand and vacuumed lay ups (couple times a week, sometimes the entire week) I would still attend your class for the soul reason of seeing other peoples methods in person (rather than on the net).
The thing Ive noticed is there is VERY few correct vacuum bagging demos, charts, layup schedules, etc… on the net. Almost all of the ones you find on google will leave your parts bubbley and full of voids. A very good one I found was a .pdf file by a Purdue University student. Wish I would have saved it (glad I remebered most of it though).
Whats more important in vacuum bagging is the “not to do’s” versus the “how to’s”. I havent found one website that discusses vacuum bagging errors in detail.
Florida just sucks for classes like yours (even though our boating industry is huge).
i don’t know how to hand lay-up a carbon part, well I do but they are TERRIBLE!!
Hmm…i technically only handlayup.
Then stick it in a vac bag and cook it 
But I think I might have different technique then others on this board, since I use pre-preg, which is tacky as hell, never goes where you want it too, sticks to everything you DON’T want it too, and has to conform perfectly in corners with out bridging.
At least with VIP, you can play with the fabric without it destroying itself by sticking to itself!
Pics to come!
Thank you for the kind words!
I just wish the local people knew better about my program…I’ll post the booklet New description of my new classes that I have been fighting for and rewritting course outlines for 2 years later as I still have to finish putting my classroom back together for next Tuesday night first class. But with this new description, I have only 4 signed up for one class and 2 for the other…min. needed is 18!:o
I guess I’ll have walk the Blvd. to prostitute myeself to get more students signed up…on my time, between my business and remodeling the home too…:rolleyes:
I do have many ideas for this forum and tutorials, but when I can make the time.
Man bridging is the devil. Ive used wood, rope, the blunt end of a plastic squeegee all with success in eliminating it.
But still every once in a while you get caught slipping and BAM!! the worlds biggest bubble/void screws your day up.
Now if i can convice my boss to switch over to a 4 to 6 hour set time resin I will be a happy person.
who do you work for?
Seems to me that someone who is able to hand laminate reasonably well, has more chance of getting good results from more advanced methods of composite manufacture.
I have always hand laminated my bike tanks using nothing more than a brush, and end up with moulding that weighs around 2.3 and is a less costly to make than using infusion. Time wise from gel-coat stage, to fully laminated top moulding takes around 45 minutes, and to finish the whole thing takes 3.5 hours. Retail price in the US is $550.
Chris
mmmmmm…time wise for a part for me is…
20 minutes total for gelcoat
20 minutes for layup
10 minutes infusing
15 minutes for trimming
and my mold is a line of 10 parts duplicated over and over.
full retail value $500 bucks or better (depends on my luck)
Total cost in infusion supplies…
part of roll of tape $2?
part of a can of spray glue $2?
peel ply, flow media, hosing and t’s and bagging film total $6?
plus the cloth and the resin
Now I aint saying I wouldnt mind being much better at the hand layups. Id love to be alot better at it actually. It would come in alot handier with my playing around with custom motorcycle bodywork. I have no intention of making race bodies as there are plenty of whores doing that already in such a tight market, but I sure would love to be able to graft and play around like I do and not worry that my molds need flanges and I dont want to worry about my cloth lifting off the mold surface or resin pooling up somewhere.
Cheetah Jeremy and the like do great work. I with I knew how they pulled parts that “dry” or if they prime everything after it comes out or not.
Haahaa. They really want me to do a sharp 90deg angle with CF. I don’t see that happening without bridging…but, I’m just a tech, not the engineer, I don’t know anything 
I like 30-50mon potlife resin. Airtech’s high temp tool resin, has a 3-4+hr potlife. They say it doesn’t sag on vertical surfaces. LIES! I have to WAIT 3 hours before I can start putting it on, and keep it on all the surfaces.
The Man.
:-p
A 90degree with out a decent radius/fillet would be crazy talk.
Almost everything I bag is 9 layers of 8 oz s class glass. We bag all 9 layers at once. I want the longest pot life possible (cause our molds are complex), 50 minute pot life would be great. My boss thinks otherwise.
The best cure for bridging yet (that I know of) is using a separater layer below the breather. In addition to some massaging after vac is applied.
Or place a custom made silicone strip to place more force into the corners.
Good tip I got out of my sales rep was to use an eraser… you know the square ones that are edged?
Pull your vacuum and then as youre pulling it you use the eraser to push in your problem areas and not tear the bag. Supposedly, if the area is pushed in the vac will hold it a bit more. and youll have less problems with the bridging.
Definitely a plus. We recently had a silicone mold go bad due to age. I plan on cutting it into various radius’ and contours for that exact reason.
I was actually considering making a silicone mold (less than a 1/4" thick) of the exterior of a cured vacuumed lamenant while it was still on the mold. Then using that as a pressure adder inside the bag for the next lay up.
Have you tried this yet? Almost like a sandwich mold, eh? How do you lay this up with respect to the peel ply and bleeder/breather?