gore-tex for infusion?

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#1

Hi guys
Would you think i could use typical 2 layer Gore-tex Fabric as semi-permeable layer to stop resin while applying vacuum? (membrane assisted vacuum infusion) i am searching for alternatives to MTI or Airtec Dahlpac. If Gore-Tex would do the trick then I would apply it to the total surface in combination with breather cloth to have a “thickness” direction of the vacuum instead of “tube” like solution (MTI and Dahlpac).

My understanding is that MTI and Dahlpac are made of Polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) and so is Gore Tex (which also have the purpose of letting go water vapor and air but not water), but I might be wrong?..

Kindly let me know what you guys think…

Really appreciate thanks!

#2

What are you trying to accomplish by covering the entire surface with the Goretex? Infusion goes from “point A” to “point B” with the resin flowing through the laminate between the mold surface and the bag. What would be the point of adding more “Z” to the laminate stack?

#3

Just get the Mti hose honestly…

#4

In theory you can do that, but you will infringe the VAP patent. The VAP process ist to cover the entire surface.
But as mentioned before there is not really a need for covering the whole surface.
The MTI hose is a special developed PU membrane laminate.
Also I can’t see a cost advantage, the Gore Tex membrane is quite expensive. There are several membranes on the market but I don’t know one that works with resin systems well and reliable.

#5

I was hoping the OP would come back on and explain his reasoning as I can’t see any advantage.

Dominik, I guess you’re back home safe and sound. Hope you and the family had a bit of fun while you were here.

#6

Thanks Roger, we are back home at cold Germany. We had a lot of fun and enjoyed the weather. The boat is repaired.

#7

Thanks guys for your time! I guess I might just stick with typical infusion or with MTI. It is still frustrating that there are so few options du to those patents. I don’t have any MTI supplier in Canada :frowning: .

In my opinion i thought the semi permanent layer on top would had obviously render better results due to elimination of any possible dry spot and also the possibility to have full flexibility of where and how many injection port you whant since the vacuum is everywhere and not just directional… might just be me…

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#8

Contact us by mail and we will find a solution for you.

#9

Sounds like you want to do “VAP” infusion which technically speaking is a patented process.

#10

Great… another patent… then I will stick to conventional…Cheers!

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#11

Pretty hard patent to enforce on smaller manufacturers that aren’t publicly showing their working methods. Just saying… Also if you’re looking at this for a larger scale production they are quite happy to license the process

#12

Infringing patents is not what should do. You can buy the MTI hose and use it without being licensed.

#13

If you are not using the process commercially, there is no problem with using a patented process.

#14

Can someone explain vap infusion process and how it differs than regular infusion?

#15

It is basically using a membrane over the entire surface of the part with a breather on top or built into the membrane so that vacuum is applied over the whole surface even behind the resin front

#16

For VAP process, you just need to sign a contract with EADS, that says you wont use it for Aerospace application. Other than that you just buy the material, which is a bit pricey. Is your part really so complicated you cant infuse by more traditional methods?

#17

Interesting tks for the info! Yes I can and will go traditional for now. I was just looking to improve, I will let you know if I revisit this strategy many tks again for those great info, I appreciate all.

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#18

Long time guys. so, HEEEEY!

So, VAP, is an easy and good way to go void free. It also helps if your resin off-gasses, which can trap voids in back of the flow front. Using goretex (mind you, not NORMAL goretex, they have a specialized composites membrane. There are also other membranes out there you can get many places.

The point is, even a side to side infusion, is that there is no pressure difference between the inlet and vent. Your vacuum is coming from the entire surface. Resin fills slowly from the inlet (you can use 2 or even ALL sided inlet), and as it fills in, all entrapted voids get sucked up through the top. Once the part is filled, it’s done. You don’t have to do anything (clamping inlet, making sure you don’t flood the part, etc etc)

The question is how exactly you do it. I don’t think you will need to get tagged for a lawsuit if you use a commercial brand membrane and user defined method.