"Forged Composite" Lambo

General Composites Discussions Composites Talk
#1

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/01/lamborghini-sesto-elemento-showcases-lightweight-carbon-fiber/

Cut and paste from NY Times-
Lamborghini co-developed the material with Callaway Golf -– which explains the set of golf-clubs placed next to the show car here in Paris. Unlike traditional carbon fiber, which is applied in layers, this forged composite is put into a stamp and pressed into shape. The Sesto Elemento “is all about constructing and designing cars in a more intelligent way,” says Manfred Fitzgerald, brand and design director for Automobili Lamborghini.

They say a finished chasis tub is finished in only 8 minutes.

I think they still apply prepreg in layers, but it is pressed between two machined surfaces with the perfect profile gap, with no vacumm bagging, kind of like a call plate.

Any ideas on how this is done? Am I on the right track? I would love to drive a four wheel drive lambo! And I always wondered how they made golf clubs and tennis rackets.

#2

You beat me to this post.

As far as I can tell it’s a proprietary take on compression molding which is just about the oldest form of molding.

If the tub is done in one piece, and high psi are used, I’d like to see the press used.

#3

without knowing anything more than a brand’s marketing technique and naming…if it’s anything like that, could always be thermoplastic as well. That lends itself to stamp molding all the time. Or, they found a way to layup flat plys in a stack, and then press it in a hot press. Which, seems odd due to the only 8 min time line. No resin can cure that fast, even hot in/hot out. I say thermoplastic.
Maybe RTM (the one where they mix as the resin is injected, VERY fast gel time)…but without more detail we can only guess.
Now if they only used that technology in NORMAL cars.

#4

Im guessing RTM, they probably have the preforms premade and ready to be put in to the mold.

#5

Is it 8min to make a chassis or a chassis every 8min? Say like Boeing make a 747 a week but it takes month to make each one.

#6

This is nothing more than marketing BS. Forging applies to metal where it’s pressed into shape and the material flow determines grain orientation. Doesn’t work that way with composites.
Press moulding of composites works mainly with sheet moulding compounds that use short fibers. It is possible with long-fiber material, but then requires layup times of much more than 8 minutes.

I’ll get pics tomorrow in the shop of some “forged composites”. It’s nothing more than well engineered compression tooling.

#7

8 minutes to cure a whole car tub? yeah that is not going to be any catylized resin. RTM makes some heavy azz parts doesn’t it… i mean you end up with excess resin content. not disputing any method…

How about prepreg layed in or on a multi piece steel mold… compresses the halves under intense pressure and heated molds. Also with prepreg then you could orient the ply direction as required/needed and not have tons of engineered weak spots.
( duh that’s what Powerhound said… i have to agree)
You get 4-5 guys laying up a car tub and i can see it being done in less than 8 minutes possibly… no vacuum bagging.

8 minutes though… what would be the point of producing a molded tub in just 8 minutes when your talking about a limited production car? Perhaps exagerated or misinterpreted.

#8

Actually high fiber volumes can be achieved from well engineered tooling. Look at some of the aerospace parts made by RTM these days using carbon fiber preforms made by 3D stitching machines. If there doin RTM I wouldnt be surprised if it could get injected in 8 minutes. with a heated tool it could be pulled rather quickly with the right resin system.

#9

you can see part of it here: http://www.aftermarketcarparts.biz/lamborghinis-new-form-of-carbon-fiber-forged-composite/

#10

What’s new about this? Fiber reinforced plastic molded in compression tooling is nothing new.

#11

I kind of wonder if there using nano fibers, but who knows they dont say much about it.

#12

Zing, there we go!!! Either short fiber injection, or chopped mat and sheets are pressed. still, if they think it’s a good system and it’s safe/strong. Cool! As for the 8 min time they say…can be injected and cured in 8min. Else, if it is a SMC(etc), Hot in Hot out might be 8min. Still…

#13

It can be sheet moulding compound, or bulk moulding compound, but both have short fibers. It might be enough for them.

Another possibility is prepreg like PEEK, or carbon / nylon prepreg.

High fiber/resin ratio can be achieved using RTM, just not with RTM-light. (with RTM you can use an incredable amount of pressure to fill the mould)

I know Mercedes makes epoxy parts, which have a cycle time of 14 minutes. It is possible.

#14

so a proprietary smc compression molded, with strand lengths tailored to the tightest radii.

I noticed one of my scales with a load distributing undertray part that is compression molded carbon smc.

Again, if this is a one peice compression i’d like to see the press and tool.

#15

I wonder what these guys call their process.

http://www.campagnolo.com/jsp/en/groupsetdetail/item_guarSRST_catid_12.jsp