First infusion just around the corner...

General Composites Discussions Composites Talk
#1

Hello, friends! I have been working on a project to make a set of hand guard wind deflectors for a friends motorcycle. You can view the build thread here.

This is the resulting mold.

I know that these parts can be laminated wet, and I have done plenty of wet lams and vacuum bagging, but I want to get started with infusion, so why wait any longer, right?

I have watched all the Youtube videos, and read just about everything that I could find on the forum here, as well as other places on the net on infusion. I’ve learned a lot and feel ready to get hands on with the process. I actually did a little test infusion with the supplies I had online and it worked quite well.

Here is a pic of that infusion.

I used US Composites 635 thin resin for the test, and it worked OK, but it did gel way faster than I would want with a real part. Now I need to get my hands on a real epoxy infusion resin system.

Like I mentioned before, I have read all the threads, and learned about a lot of good infusion resins, but I have come upon a few problems. First, I live in the US, and lots of this stuff is only available in Europe or the surrounding areas. Second, how do you order most of this stuff? Lots of the websites don’t seem to list their products for sale. This brings another issue to mind; I don’t even know how much a gallon, or a pail of good infusion epoxy costs. Could someone provide a brief overview of cost if you are familiar?

I only do this stuff on a small scale, so it would be nice to be able to visit a US based website that sells a nice infusion resin for sale in reasonable quantities with an easy way to order it. Does any place like this exist? If not, what is the best route to take to order some infusion resin in the US?

Also, is there a good one stop online shop that has a good selection of infusion materials available, mesh, hose, etc? Where do all of you order your consumables from?

Thanks, everyone for the help!

#2

I would also like to find a good infusion resion I can buy in the US.

#3

advblane,

What hardener range did you use (slow, medium, fast) and what was the ambient temperature in your working environment when the infusion took place?

I ask as we regularly infuse using epoxy products in the 600cps range similar to the 635 thin that you used. I have had nothing but fantastic results honestly.

There are A LOT of variables that determine the outcome of an infused component. Even your flow media will matter depending upon your layup schedule as to how “quickly” the resin flows through. I would agree that thinner resin systems tend to take some of the variables out of the equation, but this isn’t to say that resins in the 600 range aren’t practical.

Depending upon the setup needed for any one of our pieces, we can realistically infuse 10"-13" from the feed line in 3-4 minutes. Most every product we manufacture is infused from feed to end at an average of 2-3 minutes 5-6 for larger panels.

-Corban

#4

Hi Corban!

I used the USC 635 resin with the medium hardner. The shop was cool at around 50 f, but the epoxy and mold were under heat lamps for the duration of the 20 minute infusion.

I didn’t use infusion mesh, so I know that this slowed the infusion. I did use perf plastic on top of the lam stack with the peel ply on top of the perf plastic. I think that it’s possible that the perf plastic may have slowed down the wetting action of the fabric as well.

You can see in the picture of the infusion that right around the vacuum intake, the fabric was still dry, and the resin that was entering the vacuum hose bubbled for most of the infusion, but stopped around the 20 minute mark. The resin had clearly gone to b stage at the 25 or 30 minute mark.

This is how the infusion started. The pic was probably take 2 or 3 minutes after the resin was introduced into the mold. Notice the red color from the heat lamps.

Tomorrow I’m driving up to Fiberglass Supply to pick up some infusion consumables, so I’ll try another test infusion coupon with the 635 resin using infusion mesh and other proper consumables. I’ll also leave out the perf plastic and place the peel ply directly on top of the stack with the mesh on top of that.

Would it be recommended to still use a peelply resin brake around the perimiter of the mold when using this resin, or will this slow the infusion down too much?

Thanks for all the help!

#5

I am strongly looking into the PTM&W PT2712 infusion resin with the 1 hour hardner. If anyone has any feeback, or experiences with this resin system, I would love to hear what you have to say about it.

Thanks for the help!

#6

make sure that 1 hour is enough time. I really like to have super long work times so that I can degas for a long time and infuse under a heat lamp without worrying about the resin kicking too soon. With a 1 hour work time if you bump the heat by as little as 5C you could almost half the working time, then also factor in a 5-10 min degass before hand and you really have too small a time frame imo and my comfort level to get things infused… jsut my opinion.

#7

I have been thinking about open times a lot more now, and this advice makes sense. I’ll look into more open time to allow more time to degas, and more heat on the mold.

Thanks 20!

#8

These were wind deflectors for your hands, right? So the part is very small. (I think 6" high and 8" long or so?)

My remarks:

A)do not leave the perf film out, or you will have fun tearing the peelply and infusion mesh out. Do you have infusion-rated perf film?

B)what the **** is perf film doing BETWEEN peelply and laminate? In that case leave all out (except your laminate, of course).
Proper placement is:
-laminate
-peelply (optional)
-perf film
-infusion mesh

C) What is your flange width? I think they are really narrow. The sealant tape uses a good 1/2", the spiral tube another 1/2", and you would not like these to sit against each other, so add another 1/2", then a resin brake, which would take an inch or so, so 2,5" is the bare minimum, and can be fiddly.

D) Crank up the heat in your work area. Heat lamps heat the area in a very uncontrolled way, your resin is still cold, giving a less than perfect impregnation.

E) For this part, and if your pump is capable of pulling “the full pull”, consider ordering a stretch of MTI hose, which will give good infusion results, and you can get rid of the resin brake, which gives less trouble with narrow flanges.

My apologies for being a bit harsh, did not sleep well.

#9

Me neither. I plan on setting up a test infusion today, so I am a bit excited. You all know how that goes, right?

#10

Your vacuum set-up looks a bit strange in my eyes. Look at this [ame=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opTB-sclDUI&feature=share&list=UUsPC12VbgXA3VP_quU7pgjQ”]YouTube video[/ame] to find out how to make the infusion process very simple and reliable with the MTI-hose. This membrane hose is available in the US through German Advanced Composites, located in Miami.

#11

The vacuum system is working very well with bot pumps on line. I use the rotary vane pump to degas, debulk, and remove moisture from the stack, then I switch to the piston pump which is switched via a vacuum switch to maintain vac pressure at 25" after infusion.

Here are a vew pics and a video of my latest test. I think that it worked well.

A video of the infusion.
[ame=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX8nFBIhbDo”]Master - YouTube[/ame]

BTW, I used the US Composites 635 thin resin with medium hardner for this infusion.

#12

looks good! what size inlet tube are you using? are you manually slowing the feed down with a clamp or its that with the hose wide open?

#13

In the infusion above, I was using a 1/4" PE tube for the resin inlet. I had the tube kinked mostly closed the entire infusion because otherwise the resin just wanted to shoot across the part. The resin moves across the part WAY faster than I would have thought it would.

#14

These hard plastic meshes usually are way too fast for thin laminate and carbon infusion. The slower versions work better in that respect.

#15

What good Airtech products are slower than the greenflow shown above?

#16

The black wooven one is slower. Most wooven meshes can be used for infusion of thin laminates.

#17

I may not be going to the right websites, but all the Airtech sites that I have found have all kinds of broken links, and web pages that don’t load.

Where and how can earthly men purchase Airtech products?

#18

This alien uses www.airtech.lu

I have a chart with all meshes somewhere, will dig it up.

#19

One thing I noticed is…do you have bag sucking into your vacuum hose?! Do you have something covering it so it doesn’t get blocked? Use airweave or peelply, that is connected to the rest of the part, or you will not have a flow path to the vacuum.
Also, less wrinkles, and spread out the inlet a bit (spiral, flow media, etc) As what others said, if your part is larger, and your resin is geling, use flow media above the peelply and release film.
Pulling just peelply and mesh off with no release is not that hard. I suggest not using glass peelply, but a coated nylon. Else, stick with the release film :slight_smile: You can poke more holes in it if you need too.

#20

I live in the US, so I would like to order from here as well.

If you find that chart, I’d love to see it. Thanks for posting.