Epoxy tooling resin and surface coat. suggestions needed

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#1

I am looking to finally purchase the epoxy i need to make my mould. The mould with flange is going to be 2ft x 3ft, so its fairly large.

I was going to order from fiberglast.com: epoxy surface coat quart kit, $45
and the systems 2000 epoxy gallow for $90.

I need my mould to last for 30 parts or more. Are these items the right choice? Can you recommend a stronger or less expensive epoxy that would serve my purposes?

In terms of my material, I was goign to use a 3 oz fiberglass for the first two layers, than 10 oz layers after that.

#2

If you need tooling resin, that wont be subject to high heat, US composites resin is the way to go. Its cheap (not to be confused with low quality), wont shrink, etc…

I took a mold off my kayak a few months ago using this resin and it’s held its shape perfectly. Also made my own surface coat using their 1200cps resin. Added aluminum powder and black die. Worked out really well.

My only advice is that epoxy doesnt hold up well to continuous exposure to sytrene. So if your pulling poly/vinyl parts off your mold I would find a styrene safe surface coat. Adtech makes one. Im sure Huntsman does also.

#3

I’d agree with JRL. I use the US comp resin for moulds all the time. Stands up well. JRL, do you use the US Comp “thin” for the laminating of the mould and the “Thick” for your surface coat? Where do you get the aluminium powder from? I’d like to try that.

#4

I should try the out of the bottle surface coat sometime. I make my own now, but i’m not certain how many parts i can pull from each mold I have made… hopefully at least 25 each. I don’t use poly or vinylester resins for parts.

I guess the only true way to find out is pull as many parts as I can with each mold.

aluminum powder you get for cheap on ebay. Most composite places charge a lot for it like $35-40 a quart. ebay is like $10 a quart. Watch out though… that stuff i hear is highly flamable and is used as rocket propellant ingredient so you know it will flame up fast.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Aluminum-Powder-1LB-10u-1250-Mesh-atomized-dust_W0QQitemZ140207824994QQihZ004QQcategoryZ2567QQtcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

#5

Did it exactly like you said. Thick for the surface, thin for lamenating. Although Im considering using thick for the whole layup. Ive been expiramenting with my own “poor mans” tooling clay. Worked out really well. The thick I believe will sag way less. Thats the major problem I had when expiramenting. Only used two layers of 3 oz tape in my last mold. So the thick resin is a better fit.

I bought the aluminum from us composites. Its in the filler section. I bought it for heat dispersion, and to thicken the resin. Was really concerned about shrinkage. Not sure how much it will help in terms of hardness.

Fast: The stuff I use is Aluminum Trihydrate. Its a fine white powder. Although the stuff you listed is a great filler for high heat/compressive strength molds.

#6

Where can i buy the US composites tooling resin? This is an epoxy correcT?

[QUOTE=JRL;18391
My only advice is that epoxy doesnt hold up well to continuous exposure to sytrene. So if your pulling poly/vinyl parts off your mold I would find a styrene safe surface coat. Adtech makes one. Im sure Huntsman does also.[/QUOTE]

So you are saying that: if i use polyester resin to make my carbon fiber parts I will need to make sure that i have a more durable surface coat?
Im using an infusion resin to vacuum infuse all my carbon fiber/fiberglass parts. I dont remember if it is polyester or not.

JRL: i browsed through your album and I saw one of your moulds, i dont remember the title of the picture but, the mould was very very thick. I was wondering what you used to build the thickness that you did?

#7

US Composites epoxy is what I use for tooling (now, not in the past). It itself is not labeled as tooling resin. Just plain old epoxy.

That mold you saw is really old. I used 3 layers of 1.5oz CSM, 3 layers of 24oz woven roving, and 1 layer of 8.8 oz satin e-glass as the final layer. Used Bondo brand poly. Did two layers per day, over a 3 day period. Let it sit for a full week. Then de-molded. It shrank by about 1/8 inch after pulling it off the plug. Allowing each set of layers to dry is where the extra thickness came from. I personally wouldnt build a mold that way again.

If you using MEKP as a hardner, its a styrene based product. Epoxy will hold up to styrene for a short time, but if your building a mold that will have a lot of parts pulled off of it, eventually the styrene will wear the surface coat down.

#8

WHy did you recommend the US composites epoxy to use for my surface layer? Did you recommend this because it is less expensive?

Now i guess i need a recommendation for a good surface coat as well

#9

I recomended US composites resin as tooling resin. Not the surface coat. If I were you I would buy a pre mixed surface coat. For that I recomend any Adtech product, or, Huntsman.

What I was saying earlier is that I make my own surface coat using US composites resin, aluminum, and black dye. I do not however recomend that you do it though.

#10

adtech es-201 seems like a basic surface coat. I am waiting on their tech support to call me back so Ill let you know what i end up with.

The huntsman page is over complicated, im not gonnna waste my time

#11

Im a big fan of Adtech.

If you really want huntsman products/info. www.freemansupply.com has all of their stuff and data sheets. Its under the RenInfusion products. Pretty much any thing with the name Ren in it is a Huntsman product.

#12

[QUOTE=JRL;18547]Im a big fan of Adtech.

I used to use ADTECH a lot. I’m not impressed with the Huntsman web site either.
Which Adtech surface coat do you use for a typical room temp tool?
At the moment I’m using Ren 1124 white tooling surface coat. It has a characteristic that is quite useful; You can leave it overnight and it will be ready for the next coat without having amine blush on it or anything. Usually, as you know, the next coat should be applied when it is tacky to get a good chemical bond. this stuff you don’t have to.It has an acrylic additive, I’m told. Over $500for 5 gallons, though.

#13

I used Adtechs resin mostly. Never got into building epoxy tools untill I switched back over to the hobby side of composites. I plug Adtech because they focus soley on epoxy tooling, and their good at what they do.

Im about to redesign my kayak transom. The 1124 sounds really good. Thanks for the info.

#14

On a scale of 1 - 10 how would you rate the odor of Ren surface coat? 10 being the worst. Can it be tinted or purchased pre-tinted in orange or black?

How well does it sand and buff once cured? usually the tiny amount of clay i use gets some surface roughness in the surface coat that i sand smooth and buff - that is what the surface coat i mix myself from another brand of epoxy resin.

Can the Ren surface coat be purchased online and what is the price for a one gallon or 1.5 gallon kit?

Tech sheet for this stuff online?

Thank you

#15

http://www.freemansupply.com/RenGel1124WhiteGen.htm

All the info you need is on this page.

#16

I found the tech specs of Ren epoxy tooling surface coat. I like the numbers for the high temp 4026R/RP1510H. High temperature (tg) and room temp cure i believe?

http://www.wplindustries.com/0105.pdf

edit: Prices from White Pine Lumber located in Illinois

RP-1124-RQ (surface coat resin room temp cure) 6 quarts = $197.00 or 5 gallons = $397.00
RP-1124-HP (surface coat hardener room temp cure) 6 pints = $98.00

I believe the mix ratio is 10:1 or right about that. White Pine did not have smaller quanities of hardener listed on their website.

#17

ADTECH direct pricing
ES-201 surface coat:$34.xx/qt
ES221 $35.35/qt + $.06 hardener.

using their tooling resin: EL 302pc $67.50/Gal $21.02 for hardener.

I plan on ordering all but the 221 on Monday, My 10oz. Fiberglass is in. My plug is waxxed, clayed and ready. Im just debating if i want to spray pva or not…

I probably will. If i can get my spray gun to spray a nice coat, I will likely PVA. This is a huge expensive mould.