Dual Twill....

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#1

Do you use carbon fiber cloth for all of your laminate layers? Or do you ever have parts where you will use fiberglass behind the carbon fiber twill?

Others please feel free to chime in on what you use in your laminates.

Also I kind of want to stick with all c/f cloth and epoxy for the nicer parts i want to make for resale, and maybe a couple parts for my own bike. What other carbon fiber ( sheet/cloth/whatever )can be be used in the laminate to give it decent strength but not cost as much as plain weave or 2x2 Twill? Or is there such a thing as a less expensive c/f cloth? Just don’t want to waiste good materials and $ if it is not necessary to make a laminate completely out of 2x2 twill.

#2

Its pretty pointless using costly materials to make cosmetic parts, and if you lay something up using epoxy and carbon only, then your unit cost will be considerably more than a producer who uses poly, carbon, csm to make parts… you will also have to deal with UV issues that are related to epoxy resin systems.

I also think you need to sort out in your mind whether or not you want to try to produce parts for resale, or just to make a few items for your own bike. If you are looking at retail market, then parts need to look good and be cheap to make…

#3

i do both, the biggest thing with me and the company I had is I had a rep and a brand name. So when they bought my stuff they expected it to be highest quality. Again since my parts were in most cases double the price of my nearest competitor. I wasn’t looking to sell volume but rather quality. And I didn’t want to have to make a ton of parts if I didn’t have too. I like only working 10 or 15 days a month! Luckly in my market unlike the bike market I did not have 5 billion other companies making the same part as me. Most of my cosmetic parts were fiberglass backed unless the customer specified something different. It is always hard starting with a higher priced product. Look at your competition and see what they are doing. If it is a cosmetic part then I would just use fiberglass to back it. If you do epoxy and strait carbon then look into UV epoxy and you should not have a problems. But before you start cranking out mold make sure you can perfect your product first. Because making quality carbon parts open molded is VERY difficult.

#4

Very interested to see any parts people are making that are not purely cosmetic.

#5

also on some of your race stuff or non-cosmetic parts that you decide to do full carbon, look into kevlar as well. Right now I pay the same for carbon and carbon\kevlar and if you are worried about strength that would be your best bet for ultimate strength. If they want carbon do first layer carbon and the rest kevlar

#6

I make race hoods and race roofs and TET makes a ton of race products. Also I make a lot of full carbon door panels that go in race cars that have to be full interiors. I just recently finished a full race roof for an eg civic just waiting for install pics but I have finished product pics.

#7

here is a lip I make that ducts into the braking system

Here is a wing tip ITR extension that has been wind tunnel tested to create downforce

#8

Here is that roof I completed. The OEM roof and sunroof assembly weighted 97lbs and this weighted 7lbs.

#9

and of course my race kevlar hoods that are average 60-75% lighter then stock and in most case half the weight of cheap chinese made ones

#10

Looks very nice indeed…glad to see someone is actually making parts that work for a living, rather than just for show!

#11

I hope to make full carbon and do as you suggested Dual Twill, backing them with carbon/kevlar cloth.

 I'm thinking I like epoxy much better than ester resin that smells like fresh crap. I know that stuff has it's uses and I will probably use it some for plug making or if someone wants a fiberglass part, then i'd probably infuse the part to help keep the odor down.  I'm not really concerned about UV because i want to spray clear coat over the finished part. 

 The first c/f part i make will be a fender for a CBR954RR.  I should have the infusion equipment/supplies in a few weeks.
#12

If you are seriously looking at selling parts, your customers are not going to care whether or not you like the smell of poly resin or not…they are going to be very interested in the unit cost though!

#13

check your PM boss…

#14

will do :slight_smile:

Just to let you know cause I know what you are asking lol…

I finished the plug on thursday but I am out of town and when I get back I will start the mold on Tuesday.

#15

It depands what the customer wants.Useally, I inform the customer for the cost if they want full carbon or “semi” carbon. In case to produce semi carbon then yes, I use polyester.

#16

DT… hahahah i’m funny right? lol or persistant… i keep seeing more and more of your work and it looks amazing… i am actually buying a CF hood this week for my CRX so i can accomodate a type r, it would be f’ing sweet to end up with your roof product in the end…

take your time! and enjoy NOT BEING AS BUSY!!!

#17

That carbon race roof is interesting. I am guessint they cut their stock roof off and use some sort of body adhesive to bond the new carbon roof in place? Nice parts Dual Twill.

Classicbike, i may at times use VER on carbon parts if the customer needs a little price break. I’m not out to make cheap parts.

#18

If you want to increase unit cost due to using expensive materials, then bear in mind you are going to sell less, and production time is also going to be longer using epoxy resin systems.