I know its more philosophy question than technology ones , but I would like to know your opinion guys about all this composites job - smels, dust ,hours of hard work , fails and wins. How you get motivated? Are you satisfied with results? Whats your aim?
hahah… good question.
I think like any art, once you start to see results the labor is worth it.
For me though, it’s when you see these parts you’ve make and hold em up and feel how strong they are. It’s especially nice when you put things on a destructive tester and see quantifiable numbers on how strong it is and think, “so I could probably drop a few plys and save some grams…”
as for the work, I like it. Lots of thinking about 3d shapes often in negative, and how to apply this chemical or that, or sculpt this bit of foam, sand, spray some of this, mix a cup of that, sanding, and of course then sand it down to 2000 grit then polish.
And i always enjoy telling people I work with fabric all day.
I think it is both. There are parts of the process that I hate: making a plug–being out there covered in sanding dust and feeling my fingers rough from using sandpaper all day; or the constant hazards of fiberglass and carbon dust. But there are also moments that I love: seeing a new plug finished, popping open a new mold, laying down the fabric (okay, maybe not so much–gotta wear my mask to protect from floating carbon fibers), infusing a part, and popping out a new part–these happy moments either relax me or I look forward to.
I love the skill of being able to fabricate anything for cars, design a shape, and then create a piece. That’s my motivation. To be able to create my dreams.
It also doesn’t hurt that I invested in a full face 3m respirator to combat the dust lol.
Everything is depending from the place you work. If you have nice clean place with nice machines then everything is cool. Only sometimes if the orders come like a hell then you feel like hell.
I like this job especially if the end user are happy with your products
It is both… sometimes both at the same time…
When I was doing vacuum bagged wet lay carbon some parts would come out looking 100% and you could just admire them… Yet the next part, sometimes the opposite handed almost identical part would have issues… Grrr…
Now I am doing Out of Autoclave pre-preg more and more I have to say the first 6 months of doing it was a Royal Pain in the ass… Pinholes and bridging as well as variable results curing due to having an oven that was more box than oven…
Fine tuning my techniques have reduced the bridging. usually to the first part I make from a new mould.
Pinholes have reduced to either an acceptable level or are none existent on some parts depending on which material I have to use.
The box oven is now accurate and I can get consistent results from it so now it is more fun and I feel a lot more relaxed making parts to the point now the guy who had been helping me has said he can put work my way helping get me going more and more. I never started to do this as a business it was purely to get parts, I had been promised but were never made,for my own projects. Now I possibly have motor cycle bodywork, light units, jet ski’s and diving equipment to make for a number of people/businesses.
But I still think I have a long way to go and still have more pain in the ass coming… But when you have more days of fun than pain… It makes it worth while…
Parts like this really do make it worth all of the effort…
I feel you on this. Lots of failures and successes along the way.
But if it were easy, everyone would do it and it would lose its specialness. I get a real sense of satisfaction when customers rave about their parts because they are used to low quality, Chinese made garbage carbon fiber.
Looking good! Sorry to get off topic, but are you tinting this epoxy? Doesn’t look like the traditional red carbon/kevlar.
That part in red was a pre-preg part which was sprayed with a tinted lacquer. But you still need a good part to get a flawless part even lacquered or it would cost a lot more to correct the pinholes. I have seen parts with pin holes Lacquered and they are covered in craters… lol
Mostly both at the same time for me, haha. I hate my job. I love the stuff I build. It’s an addiction with a hangover.
True true… I hate it too, but the effect loosen the pain ;p or sometimes not…
Even though I have a mostly clean shop and work with pre pregs I still find it a PITA at times.
No matter how much you think you know, things still go wrong and bite you, then your investing so much labour to fix an issue and do the job right that you just blew any profit that was anticipated.
Can be easy to lose money or at least a difficult business to be in.
Expensive materials, expensive labour, and then customers often shocked at the cost of parts.
But very interesting and challenging to do.
i absolutely hate it. I keep trying to stop offering Carbon parts because of the huge headaches but anytime you see a perfect Carbon part finish you cant help to be mesmerized by it…
That is so true… it only takes a few scrap parts to lose money fast…
Customers just do not realise how much material costs and think it takes an hour to make the parts you have spent up to 2 days laying up… I have one guy who wanted to make his own parts… I had him over as he is a bit of a friend and now has a greater understanding… He actually sticks up for my when I post up a cost on my Facebook pages…
The challenge is the thing that keeps me going…
I always find it funny when a person may walk in and ask to have a sheet of carbon made.
They typically say “just a thin sheet about 3mm thick”
Then I spell it out, so that’s 15 layers of 200g pre preg carbon cloth at AUD$90 per metre (cost) which equals $1350 per square metre plus labour to make, trim, tax, profit etc.
Just $2000 thanks!!
Then I educate them that the idea is to take advantage of carbons great strength and use less of it with sandwich construction saving loads of weight and money!
I find a big problem is finding the right application for carbon and using it newer more innovative ways. It’s been traditional mentality to just copy a part in carbon or try to do things the same way as metal or wood. If you were to price out that panel for the guy, find out how strong it needs to be, and then work from that, you might find that a piece of mdf laminated with a ply of carbon might be all he needs, plus does he need square meter sized piece? Maybe he needs 12 x 6"? There are many variables but if the application is suited to composites, cost is usually justified. If it’s purely cosmetic than cost is doubly justified! We all know how fun it is to get the perfect finish.
THis is why so many industries are embracing composites and keep it such a lively and changing industry to follow. THere’s been some great innovations in chemistry and weaving and materials. And we haven’t even seen the new crazy stuff like graphene and nano-tubes really flood the market. The way I see it if you’re making things for people that can’t really afford carbon, don’t need, or just want to price it out, then you need more customers.
It’s an interesting field to work in and I’m glad for it’s crazy intricate details and amazing quality results.
AUD$90 per sq/m??? Ouch… I am paying about the same as AUD$60.00 per meter for 245gr. But still… Yes you are right… It is simple… Just a sheet how hard can that be and it cannot cost much to make… I had a guy just ask for 2 small sheets cut to size and no thickness given just told to make it quite stiff… Hmmm…OK…
Invest in some 12k or other high gsm carbon for bulking. It will reduce your cost dramatically. ~4-5 layers of 12k would do it
Of course, I also have 300g unidirectional but this would still cost the guy $1000.
As someone else said, many are just replicating something else and want the same but carbon. Replacing an original 3mm interior car panel with a 3mm carbon panel is a bit over the top and also unnecessary too since there are better more economical ways.
I agree with the ignorance of people of what it takes to make a composite part–any part whether carbon, aramid, or fiberglass that is made from scratch. I sometimes get people who assume that if they order on Monday that somehow things will be made by Friday-- eventhough I was very clear of the time that is required in such a build, but people don’t know the process, they don’t see the plug building, mold building, the infusion of the part, and then working out any fasteners and brackets that need to be fabricated. Most people just think it is easy, and see the finished result and think that it is a one step process.
HAHAHAHAHAHHA! One step process… don’t we wish it were that easy. :rolleyes:
no, what would be the fun of that? It would probably be just another brainless job then 