Has anyone used a spray adhesive that doesn’t dissolve in epoxy? I guess it deosnt have to be spray, but it has to stick cloth to the surface. Its for wrapping large bits, and I want to skip the doing an epoxy base coat to keep definition and also to save time. I havent tried Aerofix 2 or Airtac 2.
Cactus,
I don’t know about Aerofix, but Airtac 2 dissolves in resin… I use it for every laminate that I make specifically because of its dissolving characeristics, so for your layup style it won’t work.
Hopefully others can chime in here… I personally don’t do wraps, but from what I’ve heard and read about them, doing the “resin base coat” for tack is the only way I know of wraps being done.
Good luck on your quest!
-Corban
Has anyone tried the “Tac-Strip” tape (Dry Fabric Placement Tape) from AirTech that might work especially well for this application? If so, any comments on that product??
Description says:
Tac-Strip is an environmental friendly product which can be used instead of spray adhesives.
“environmentally friendly” translates to expensive. Although it might work on the reverse of parts. I have a feeling the pattern will show through.
Works great on fabrics. Price, although environmentally friendly, is not bad. (the envorinemtally (lysdexic) part is that there are no fumes or solvents.
Works less on foams.
Printing might be an issue in thin laminates, but for thicker laminates it is OK.
2 things:
-not tearable. Needs scissors.
-once you let the loose end land on the roll, you spend the next half hour finding the beginning of the roll.
On spray glues:
there are basicly 3 types:
-hotmelts. Do not dissolve in anything
-standard stuff. Usually dissolves in polyester, not epoxy. Can cause delamination in very high temperature epoxy applications (120C and above)
-epoxy based stuff (Zyvax, and others). Seem to work on high temp epoxy.
Airtac 2 does not dissolve in epoxy, by the way.
Thanks Herman.
I’ve tried this spray adhesive:
It’s cheap, but the problem was that as soon as the epoxy wetted the carbon, the adhesive let go and started peeling. I had to use kitchen plastic film around the whole part in the end to get the carbon back in place. The issue then was sanding the wrinkles.
So you think Airtac 2 won’t have this issue?
It doesn’t? What happens to it? After all of my infusions, haha… is it in the laminate on the face ply?
I’m not too proud to admit if I was wrong, and I believe Herman knows heaps more than I… with regards to my pieces, Airtac 2 holds the face ply exactly where I want and after the infusion and demold, there isn’t (from what I see and feel) any irregular surface or contaminant.
I was told that the Airtac 2 “dissolves” and is carried away in the front line of the epoxy during infusion.
My bad. Now I’m really interested to hear what actually happens to it during the infusion.
-Corban
Corban, I did some tests with Airtac2, as indeed I heard from various sources that it did not impact surface quality. So I set up a glass panel, cut out a square from a piece of paper, and used that as a masking pattern to mist a bit of Airtac2 over that.
Result was a nice square with glue, and the rest without glue. I infused some carbon over it with epoxy, and then I left. (I live some 150 miles / 225 km away from headquarters). I asked my colleague to demould the panel, and he told me the square was not visible. I even reported that on this forum.
Much to my disappointment, when I saw the panel the week after, it had a nice square of spray glue in the middle. Nothing disturbing, but it did not have the glass shine.
I am still deciding if I will buy sunglasses or a dog for my colleague…
My colleague is on the right, I do not know the other guy.
or a dog:
Herman,
Thanks for the update!
So for the Original Poster: maybe AirTac 2 would work?
Herman: Do you know of a spray adhesive that would achieve fabric tack to tool surface but then dissolve away during the infusion? I think I saw someone write hairspray?
Whatever you recommend Herman, I trust you.
-Corban
I’m interested in a spray adhesive to use on the face of a tool that will dissolve while infused with epoxy as well. Is there anything out there? I have a tool that has a very tight “pocket” in it that I can’t get fabric to lay in without a clear gel or Duratec top coat.
I have personally not came across a product that leaves a 100% perfect finish, when using epoxy. With polyester it is more easy, as that has a huge amount (30-40%) of a strong solvent (styrene) in it.
However, the epoxy BASED spray glues MIGHT be a solution. The only one I can find right now is Infuzene, but I guess there are more. I know Zyvax had one, but they had stability issues, an the product was pulled from their portfolio.
Another option is to gelcoat the mould with an epoxy gelcoat, and once that went tacky, move on with fiber placement.
Back to my question, will Airtac 2 hold on to the fabric after its wetted out?
Corban, is it a terrible favour to ask if you could take a carbon offcut, adhere it to a piece of scrap laminate with Airtac 2, then once you mix your next batch of epoxy, wet out the cloth and see if it peels off?
No idea if it will hold. I will only be in HQ next week thursday, and I doubt that I have time to test then.
I have Always used it with resin infusion. No need for wet holding power then…
Clearco makes a great fabric to fabric/foam to foam adhesive that’s quite a bit more affordable than the Airtac.
http://shop.fiberglasshawaii.com/tools/adhesives
It won’t be affordable by the time I pay shipping to the UK…
Cactus,
I’ll absolutely do that for you, no worries.
Question, are you doing a piece where the carbon is draping over or a piece where the carbon is draped into?
I’ll set up a simulation of what your trying to achieve and test for you.
-Corban
Thank you so much. Draping isnt an issue, its wrapping around a corner. I have taken the time to design this most accurate model using the most sophisticated imaging software available, Paint.
So originally the carbon would have wrapped tightly around the blue shape being held on by spray adhesive. But after wetting it out, the epoxy dissolves the adhesive and the fabric just hangs.
Cactus,
I’ll look around the shop, I’m sure I’ll have some scrap something with those shapes. I’ll look over the weekend, and throughout the next week I’m sure I’ll have some time to test it out for you and share my findings.
-Corban
Lovely, I appreciate it.