I have make this 3d to show how it is possible to do when every step of the process is studied to give the best.
I have read for long time here and in other forum that with infusion is not possible to have perfect parts especially carbon fiber item
Of corse I can not share everything but can suggest some info.
You know, wind blade are different from Carbon fiber motorcycle or automotive parts for example.
Production problems are very different
The keys for do the best part with infusion are a lot. The ability of the operator or technician is choose the right setup for any cases.
It is very important anymore follow the same steps, these is a must if you want close in a restricted area the issues.
Same and moder mould release
Same degas and pre heating resin
Same vacuum value
Etcā¦
Other example
I have founded great plus changed bagging sistem.
First I used bag just on flanges.
Now ONLY full bag like autoclave, more controls and more easy, of course all my mould are made for do this. Just with very big mould I use bag on flanges.
Care to share anything a out your intensifier plates? This is something I have wondered about with infusion, but just couldnāt see it working with infusion or didnāt get round to trying it.
Excellent work, Star.ace!
I am working on a closed mold, also with multipart mold. Each mold part has its own draft pull angle.
I would be interested to know more and see some pictures of your seven part molds.
Do you post finish the strategically placed parting lines?
Have you infused tubing shaped, like bicycle frame, structures? Would you use a custom bag/bladder? How would you monitor the resin front in a tubular closed mold?
I plan to use multiple resin out ports to trap line to insure complete infusion of blind areas.
Also, if possible, I will also design into the parts open tube ends so I can visually monitor as well as use a flange seal vac line to resin trap with valve.
These run end flanges may be located at a bolt hole opening for example.
Regards, Doug
You made me laugh, itās just bad english or you have a big ego. Not meant wrong your products look nice, but you act like you invented the wheel.
"I have developed technology to:
cut dry fibres
tackifier method epoxy compatible
safe vacuum bag
curing curve
vacuum curve
special pressure plate to push fabrics in the mould
Andā¦:
High tech graphite/carbon mould
pre-treatment to close pinholes before paint process."
I see nothing new or ādeveloped technologyā here, just words to make it sounds better. If you are an expert in infusion you donāt need anything to close pinholes for painting because you have none.
Why do you use MTI hose ?
Why do you cure for 2 hours and then postcure ? You can also leave it in the mold and then cure a full cycle ?
What do you think to achieve with OOA prepreg in comparison to infusion ?
Michiel, you are rude, and maybe You did not understand the sense of this 3d
I am not invented the wheel, but I have developed my own technology year before the suppliers o productor of composites material
I am expert of infusion and pinholes are always present on carbon fibre. Just if you use press mould process you will have a very good finish.
I never use in coat trasparency gelcoat in the mould for many reason.
Why I use MTI hose
Why not?
When I discovered this product I have seen benefit and I have decided to integrated in my process
Before MTI I have had the same result but with an expensive procedure.
Now less time, less step same result!
About curing
Of course you are an expert right?
So you know there are a lot of kind of resin, right?
All my parts have a very high tg (120 C)
With the resin sistem that I use, it is possible to demould after two hours of curing.
So, it is perfect because can reuse that mold for another part while the just demoulded one is in another specific oven for post curing to give it the final tg.
Why I want to use OOA prepreg?
Easy, I am so tired to use channels, breathing layer mesh, degas process and go on.
I sorry if I have a bad English dear Michiel, you are the master.
Is it difficult handling the criticism ? I donāt know what you mean with this 3d ?
Did you see or hear me say Iām an expert ?
Clearly Iām doing something wrong because I make pinhole free parts with infusion and Ćām not the only one . Not always, because I do make some mistakes sometimes, but Iām not an expert.
MTI use because itās expensive and for an expert not needed. You can get the same result without MTI for less bucks, the same work and you donāt have to be an expert for that.
It was just a question about curing, because Iām still no expert. The only reason I could think off was that you needed the mold asap and thatās the case apparantly.
Itās clear why you want to use OOA. You can expect a lot of other problems with OOA for cosmetic parts, but you know that already.
If you post on this forum telling youāre an expert you can expect some questions and criticism, thatās something else then rude. Good luck with OOA and I doubt if you get better cosmetics with it then infusion. If you do please share.
No worries about your english, my english not that good as well.
You have started with me with the right way. Thatās all.
Of course I can accept critics - no problems - but In the right way
Not āyou have invented the wheelā¦ā
Read well please.
I have written that when I started with infusion 20 years ago, no supplier or manufactures push for produce sistem to give aesthetic carbon fiber parts, so I have developed for my own some techniques to help me to have the max result and I have showed same pictures
You can see very complicate and small part with of details produced with resin infusion.
So where is your perfect parts? But this is not the point.
I have spoken about Mti because it was a great idea but it was arrived to late for me.
Anymore I have integrate it in my process
It is expansive? Maybe, if you use the suggested procedure (coverage of all pherimeter)
But if you use just a part, honesty is not expensive.
If a normal user buy one metre for a specific mould I can use just 15/20 cm with the same result.
I have spoken about Pinholes but not the dimension of my pinholesā¦
They are invisible to see but when you start to paint should be see some problems.
Clear coat in mould?
Reduce vacuum after infusion or switch off pump (oh my Godā¦) like easycomposites video promo?
Are these the trick of the expert?
I do not think so.
For very high standard, rich resin on external layer is considerated as waste part.
Gelcoat in mould it is for hobbies for me and for factory that ask me special parts it is a palliative.
Request standard in my case are very high.
So little and invisible pores should be sealated before painted.
I never said that my pinholes are big as Grand Canyonā¦
If anybody is able to produce a pinholes free surface without palliative I am very happy for you.
More over, 20 years ago no right product seal pores on carbon before painted. I have developed for myself a way to fix them.
Go ahead
About curing and post curing.
Now have you understand?
I was simple If you ask kindly as: " why do you curing and acted post curing out of the mould"
It was been more politle.
If you have one mould and you want to produce more parts quickly, there are resin that you can demould very fast and after postcuring in a second moment.
And yes you have understand the reason why I want to switch on ooa.
I have tested some prepreg and everything was great but I have written that it is impossible to find low volume of 200 grms 3k PLAIN ooa prepreg so i am tried to built my own prepreg.
I have already founded right resin on fibermax on line shop and I am developed a laminator for create on a resin film e micro channels to improve to extract air during the first step of debullking.
And when I will find the right solution I will post pictures
Ok i have one question - because i also buy thinks from fibermax.
Have you tested three things ?? :
1)The resin the use for infusion
2)The resin they have to make uoyr own prepreg
3)The prepreg they make themselves ???
I am using their prepreg with really good results
but the infusion resin they provided me didnt give me the
results that their prepreg gave me.
Do you know if they prepreg they sell is made out of the resin
for prepreg making they sell ???
And i would really like you to tell me your opinion of prereg system vs infusion system -strength wise
You need to be aware that the Easy Composites tutorial is a tutorial for producing cosmetic carbon parts. Make no mistake, the guys at Easy Composites are as close to experts as you can get in this industry (and yet you wonāt find them on a forum telling you that). They are well aware that there are other methods to success with infusion, they have simply produced a tutorial for the majority of people who want to get a perfect, pinhole free cosmetic carbon part and who donāt care about putting in an additional 10 grams of weight to achieve it. One could just as easily say that if you arenāt getting pinhole free results then it is you who is doing something wrong. For the record, Iām NOT saying that at all. Iām just saying there is more than one way to skin a cat.
I do not have any problem with easy composites, I am their customer and their is nothing wrong if you want to have that kind of result but it is considerate waist part items with rich resin on surface. Quality standards are different ad so far from that kind of results.
It is a not traditional method close the outlet line and after stop the pump. that all.
I never write that easy composite method is stupid or something else, but just it is no so professional. It is my opinion, I do not used bad or rude word or insult anybody.
Never mind.
I just buy resin for do my ooa prepreg, so. I can not help about other kind of resin, I am sorry and I never buy conventional prepreg by fibermax.
As I have already written here win right setup resin infusion is a great process.
Ooa prepreg when I will be able to fix some critical point should be the best vs infusion.
less labour, less consumable, cut fabrics, put in in the mould, just film release and breather.
No channel, no infusion mesh no tube for inlet, non tule for outlet, no resin trap no claps for tube, no bulket Ec.
Here a solution can be a reusable silicone bag, but now I want to change.
I know tha the curing setup for ooa are very critical, I am testing a lot and for now I am very happy
You acted like you had invented the wheel, but no hard feelings.
You developed your own techniques, thats totally different from technology in your first post. Thatās just the bad english that makes things a bit diffferent.
Do you hear me talk about size of pinholes do you hear me talk about coatings ? No.
You still have a lot off fancy talk for some things that are not. You say some technics or products are for hobby but not every pro does it your way or uses the same products. Not every pro has the same customers, specs, products, working space, budget, ect.
And still you use MTI as a āproā. Nothing against MTI hose because itās a great product and a real developed technology.
Mich,
I am do not understand why you want fight with me.
I have seen your part. Good part. I am an expert you are expert, what is the problem?
I have write my personal opinion with out offend anybody.
You have started to reply that I am ridiculous and I have invented the wheelā¦
I have written that in 20 years just few supplier have developed something to aesthetic carbon fiber parts and I like many people of have developed own technique to improve this technology. This is the point.
Mti is just an example. I like it and for little and medium parts often I use that tecnology.
Before I have ad the same result with out it. Stop.
I never wrote the all people here are all hobbiest because , what Is the problem to be or have an hobbies?
Im no expert. Can you tell me a bit about the intencifiers , do they sit between the flow media and the vac bag ? I have some complex areas on a part im reproducing , hopefully you can see the attatchment.
there are now OOA prepregs with uv inhibitor specifically for bare carbon finishā¦ the automotive market is pushing for this. as well as sporting and what not where the consumer cares about the finish. Havenāt tried these yet, but would be interested in using them.
The prepreg I do use gives a fantastic surface with a good mold. but without UV protection, it starts to yellow very fast.
Iāve used car wax containing UV inhibitors to good effect before, the only downside is that you then need to keep applying the wax over the life of the part. Not a huge issue when it takes 5 minutes every 6 months, but itās nicer to just not have to worry about these things.
. Not always, because I do make some mistakes sometimes, but Iām not an expert.
