mmmm sexy i love the way carbon fiber looks on streetbikes

im willing to bet that i pay about the same if not very much more for my epoxy resin/hardener than you pay for your PER…$53 a galon for the west systems resin and $24 for the hardener for the gallon, works out to be almost 1.5 gallons total for $77 and i can drive and pick up more anytime i want, tax free because im a business entity

do some research, west systems is 1 of the best epoxy resin systems you can buy, not sure how much epoxy resin costs in the UK but everything is fairly cheap in the good ol` usa

Price you are paying for epoxy is about double the UK retail (non trade) price of poly, which comes with MEK.

But when you look at the fact process time is longer and more costly with epoxy, and finished parts require clear coating to provide UV protection, for cosmetic parts the right material choice seems a bit of a no brainer…

last i checked my epoxy HAS uv protection built in, i dont need to gelcoat or clear coat anything…and really how much extra per part is it to use a product that is better than PER? $4 per part more? my parts can withstand high heat from say exhausts and engines without getting soft…

If you are using West epoxy it doesnt have UV protection, and this is generally only found on specific products intended for things like surf board manufacture, and is more costly than non UV protected.

There isnt any doubt that structural parts are better made with epoxy resins, but you seem to be making things like side panels, which I dont think need to be heat resistant or particularly strong?

If you are making a few parts for your own use, employing time consuming and costly production methods, doesnt matter in the slightest, but if you are looking to sell anything then its something that needs to be looked at very carefully…

i do agree with you in the sense if a person is making a few parts for personal stuff then yes…use PER, but im selling parts…on a fairly large scale i think, last month i had to produce 100 heelguard sets for a local bike shop and i use only west systems resin with the 208 special hardener that does indeed have uv inhibitors, recently ive decided to switch to the 206 slow hardener because its clear in color and i want a deeper shine on my parts…that however does not have uv inhibitors

If you are making small cosmetic carbon parts using vacuum and epoxy resin system, then I guess you are either losing money or have customers prepared to pay quite high unit costs, you would need to charge in comparision to wet layed poly parts? This is fine if you are selling direct to end user, or costing your labour rate very low indeed!

In regard to low volume special parts for cars, not otherwise available, vac/carbon/epoxy is certainly viable, and prices are high enough to compensate for the use of a long winded and costly production method, but this is completely different to the very competitive area of ornamental bike composites…

In regard to West Systems resin being UV protected I had a long talk to West UK tech guy about this last year, and at that time none of the products availble here were UV stabliised. However there is a hardener (207) which will help with the clarity of the resin for cosmetic applications, but parts do need to be clear coated: http://www.westsystem.com/webpages/productinfo/guide/index.htm

well i dont know the market in the UK but ill say this and its all ill say, for every $15 in materials i spend i make $50 profit minus tools/electricity, etc…if i used PER i could expect to see about $5 more, that $5 im willing to give up to produce a higher quality of part and trust me i have no problem selling parts esp on a higher scale…in the USA there are millions of people willing to buy carbon fiber parts for their bikes…and they are picky, very very picky…they want the highest quality parts money can buy and for the most part money isnt THAT big of a deal…they would rather spend an extra for higher quality parts…epoxy is the ONLY way to go in my opinion

If you are making a good profit then thats fine, but if you are not costing labour time at a reasonable rate, then thats something you do need to look at very carefully. If you are basing the profit on material costs versus final unit cost alone, then your figures suggest you are probably just about breaking even…unless of course your time is free.

very good points people should consider if making this into a business…since im fairly new i set my hourly wage at $40 an hour and right now thats what im making doing hand layups…once i start making more parts per day ill switch to using VIP, that should cut my time in half but i should maybe consume more materials, but if im making more parts than im making now…the total number of parts should offset the cost of extra materials very very easily and provide a higher hourly wage in the long run…VIP is the way to go if you are making more than 2-3 parts a day

well i hope to start into it, slowly tho. does anyone have pics of the difference in finish in the final product from epoxy resin and poly resin? or is poly resin only used for the mould and epoxy resin is a waste of money in the mould.?:cool:

An average consumer will not be able to tell the difference between a part made from epoxy or esther resin.

initially most wouldnt know the difference, but as parts get older and are in direct sunlight more, and they are exposed to heat, the 2 different resins can be noticed very easily

poly is used for making molds that dont require baking the parts at higher than 110-120degrees…epoxy is used for making molds that require heat baking above 120degrees, this includes the tooling gelcoat also

same applies as far as heat is concerned on parts you make with epoxy vs poly/vinyl

From the perspective of appearance any parts made with non UV stablised epoxy resin systems, which have not been clear coated, are going to start to discolour relatvely quickly, especially so in locations which are very sunny.

In general the only UV stabilised epoxy systems easily available are intended for surfboard production, and are more costly than non stablised material. Most people producing cosmetic carbon motorcycle parts on a commercial basis, use pre-preg materials, and clear coat the finished parts.

Unless a customer is familiar with composite work, he or she is unlikely to be able to tell if a part has been made with poly or epoxy resin. Whether or not the finish of a part degrades quickly is more likely to have to do with not using the correct material in the first place, or not using it properly, rather than the resin system used.

Either system will work fine, but need to clear coat, longer process time, and additional costs, suggest that anyone wanting to produce parts for retail, should think very carefully before opting to use epoxy resin for non structural cosmetic motorcycle parts!

How long does it take to produce your $50 profit from $15 of raw materials?

Seems to me if it takes much more than an hour, and taking into account your possible sundry costs (electricity, rent etc) as well as your labour rate of $40 an hour, you are going to be losing money!

To get anywhere near making it worthwhile, I would say you need to be making at least $200 from $15 of raw materials.

CB…OK, you have stated your ideas. Stop bating and let others use what they want to use.

Yes, open molding with PER is cheaper but some people have higher dollar customers that they are serving.

I will ban for a week or more anyone that starts agruments on here.

I started this forum to share composites ideas and not to have flame wars!

ok well i use epoxy resin,i think its sp 115…told its very good at finishing the product nice and i think it does… however i need to make good moulds that are not too expensive.

I am not really into being threatened with being banned, so have decided to cease posting here. Lets hope the input provided by posters such as “Raced Out” is helpful to other users, and they can profit from his highly developed business acumen!

Classic, by the way… what makes you such an expert. PER, cheap, fast made parts. customers that are unhappy? Please stop trying to tell people they should be just like you and do things just like you. We really don’t want to hear one more word about “cost of parts” etc etc. You know what the funny thing is, i never said the guy in the video didn’t know what he was doing, i made mention of two things… he needed some mold release wedges because prying on glass with a steel tool is dumb. Second i got bored watching him. It’s true i got bored. I make 3 composite parts a week and bring in a couple hundred extra dollars profit for it. I have a day job also, i’m a professional machinist. Does it bother you someone here is more intelligent than you are C.B.?

how about we delete this thread before more people get unhappy?