Ive had good success using Procast 20 from Hunstman. Works well for epoxy, never tried PER.
do you mean the smell was stronger or the physical properties?
the smell was a lot stronger then PER ill tell u that. didnt like it at all either… id rather not user tooling compound all together even if it didnt smell.
yeah, I can’t use PER at all, just isn’t an option where i do my work. The epoxy i use and the tooling ingredients are zero VOC and have no smell, just don’t wiff the smoke coming off the epoxy mixing cup. The biggest thing is having to vacuum bag the lay up, and that isn’t really too hard to do. And hey, i end up with molds that can be put in an oven if it’s under 200F. I eventually want to buy an oven. A PER mold can’t be put inside of an oven.
I’ll see how this mixture i made works out, if it’s good I would really have no reason to change up, other than to add some aluminum powder. Yeah PER is cheaper but it’s not a major factor here.
I do get your cost analysis Classicbike, it makes good sense. I just won’t and can’t use PER or VER. Not until i get a shop. Even then i’ll use epoxy for most parts and molds.
Firstly here in the UK odour suppressed poly resin systems are easily available, and cost is about the same as non suppressed.
In terms of usage in a home workshop, neither epoxy or poly systems are that great, and it has to be born in mind that both are intended to be used as part of industrial processes, not for home use.
Finally for anyone intending to make parts and sell them, the unit production cost of each item is very important, so unless you are making very specialised high tech items in very small numbers, you must price competively.
If a competitor is able to make a part for 50c and sell for $5, but your unit cost is $2, then you either have to sell your part for more, or make a lot less money…neither option really works commercially, and is something that needs to be very carefully looked at.
Just because Epoxy doesn’t smell as bad as non odor supressed PER, doesn’t mean it is safe to use without a resperator!
You cannot spray Epoxy resins as the hardener mist is lethal!
Hmmm…?
You want safe? They lock youself in a panic room!
i use to work at home with epoxy + fg… NOT SAFE!!! i didnt care what it cost me to get a shop i had to get it.
u cant seem csm, u cant see the stuff all over your stuff… breathing it… causes bad bad things.
On balance poly systems look a lot safer to use than epoxy, so I think odor suppressed PER is probably the best choice to use at home.
all these chemicals are bad for you bottom line one way or another. you should be building your molds based on what you want to get out of them. a epoxy molds can last longer and take better heat cycles then any other. In my opinion I would rather spend more money and take more time and do something right then to just do it quick to get it done then relize my mold sucks… take pride in what you do… improve your skills and make the best plug/mold/parts possible., trying your best will make you better…
Would agree entirely about doing the best you possibly can, but maybe newbies who may not have come to terms with pretty basic stuff yet, are not going to gain much by using more costly materials which dont really seem to be required?
couldnt agree more with you…im new to composites but i think im making some pretty nice molds so far…
http://compositeforum.werksberg.com/showthread.php?p=16294#post16294
yes, very true, but you can also look at it as a very good learning experience. you learn best by your mistakes. and the more expensive the stuff you use gives you more of a reason to take your time and research it correctly. I always try to give these guys the best possible info, it is up to them if they want to listen. as for money they need to decide wether or not it is worth the extra investment, which in my mind isnt really too much more when making small molds such as most people here do. however in larger mold the cost get get very expensive, I have made many molds that have a material cost of $50K+
I don’t see how you can “supress” the smell of PER. You can probably mask the odor by changing what it smells like. If i’m wrong by all means say so.
Anyhows ( i purposely spell like this ) I’ll be looking for a shop soon. All i need to do is sell some parts each month to pay for it.
Ya know I have an attitude of mind, “don’t let anyone hold you down or their poor attitude get in your way of doing a good thing”.
Completely agree wtih that statement.
If I were you, in terms of health…I would be WAY more worried about controling the dust in your shop vs. styrene.
Fiberglass floats around in the air (almost like its weightless) for HOURS after grinding. Even if you hook your grinding tool directly to a vacuum there will still be glass in the air.
I have so many pictures to where I forgot to shut the flash of before I took a pic of my work. You can see all the glass floating in the air. Thats with using exhaust fans, vacuum, etc…
So be carefull, and when you can afford it get a really good downdraft setup.
Here in the UK odor suppressed poly resin systems are easily available. Not having used them myself I cant be sure, but would think that “odor supressed” means that the styrene smell is a lot less than the std stuff.
Wish you luck with selling parts to finance a shop, and hope you are able to price competively, and sell all you can make.