Advice from some pro's please!

Your making a camper? Vinyl Ester resin is great, but one thing I would never do is use pure VE on either plugs or moulds. It you were wanting to insist on using a VE then use a blended DCPD/ VE. Firstly are you going to post cure the plugs moulds or the part you ultimately make? If the answer is no then do not use VE! VE’s will continue to cure unless you post cure the laminate that contains the VE at a temp above what the plug, mould or the part will be exposed to. I have often seen parts made with VE ambient cured, then painted and then put into a low bake oven to cure the paint and whamo, print through! Meaning the VE will continue to cure and the VE will shrink further. It’s a camper, and I know everyone wants to build the ultimate high strength component. But is an overkill and you ultimately won’t achieve the finish you had hoped for. Stay with a good quality polyester, isophpthalic or orthophthalic laminating resin. DCPD based if you can get them in the grades I just mentioned. These types of resins exhibit excellent positive cure low shrink and are approx 2/rds the price of VE. These type of resins will give you all that you will need to achieve what you’re hoping for. It will also save you a few dollars.

Sorry typo I meant to write 2/3 rds the price of VE generally.

I’m trying to estimate the total weight of the finished product. Is it true the weight of cured epoxy is the same as liquid?

Is the same true with other resins?

I am estimating approx. 35 sq ft per gallon average) for this project or 64 gallons to cover four layers totaling 560 sq ft per layer or 2240 sq ft total.

Using 1.5 oz mat once, 1708 biax twice, and .75 oz mat once, is this a fair estimation?

I found this schedule of estimated coverage - my estimates seem to at least be in the ball park

http://www.fiberglasssite.com/servlet/the-68/Fiberglass-Information,-and-How/Detail

Am wondering about doors & windows on the quickie mold, which is the better way? Framing exactly or framing an inch or two smaller in order to cut a clean area for the door & window frames later? I have seen doors & windows that are sort of inset in the fiberglass. Not sure that’s the best way though.

One other question: does the foam core attach with resin like the fiberglass? Possibly that is additional resin I haven’t figured.

Am I allowed to post in your thread? (I am not a pro. :stuck_out_tongue: )

Just one suggestion on trimming laminated parts - you may like to invest in a Dremel or similar rotary tool if you don’t already have one. The thinner cutting disk will produce much less dust and you can cut around curves much more accurately than with a grinder. (Try to use an extension arm if you can, keeps more of the dust away from the motor unit.)

Using a grinder is quick, especially on thicker parts. But the added thickness of the cutting disk will make an almighty mess. I used a grinder once inside my garage/work area - never again! (I take the job outside if I must use a grinder.)

Hey of course welcome - & thanks 4 the tip

I’ve never had print problems with vinylester but that doesn’t mean it can’t occur. A quick check with the supplier would help in that matter. The main problem I have with DCPD resin is it is relatively brittle in comparison to vinylester or even iso polyester. Another problem with DCPD resins is secondary bonding issues. The resin rapidly cures to a hard state that doesn’t allow very good bonding.

Your calcs for materials sound about right.

On the windows question, if you want a recess you can certainly make one. A method I’ve used many times to build a recess on a quickie mold is to again go with the melamine. Attach the recess insert to the main mold surface with drywall screws. Since the melamine is based on a particle board substrate, the edge needs to be dealt with in order to create a surface that will release. 3M makes a polypropylene tape (#218 Fine Line) that resists attack from the resin. You can cover the melamine’s cut edges with the tape. I route the edge with a 1/4" round over bit and then cover it with the tape.

I prefer to bond the core with bonding putty. Generally speaking, a 1/8" notched trowel is used to apply the putty.

Mugget’s tip for the Dremel tool is a pretty good one for hobbyist type work. For heavier cutting duty, you can use a diamond tile blade in an angle grinder. You can buy them from the box stores for $20-25.

We’re talking a camper which won’t see a lot of load (mechanical) that is. Yes you are right DCPD resins can exhibit degrees of brittleness. Most resin suppliers nowadays are loathed to supply pure DCPD’s other than for light RTM applications. Cosmetics and for cycle times. Most open moulding based DCPD’s are blended, and the elongation to break on these type of resins are generally in the order of 2-2.5%. Most standard Ortho’s similarly are in that range. Iso based DCPD’s are I agree a better option to Ortho as they will have a higher elongation to break and will typically exotherm at far lower temps than most standard Iso’s will. Iso’s typically exotherm higher than Ortho’s and generally multiple lay ups need to be kept to a minimum. However with Iso DCPD’s this problem is alleviated. Also your comment re secondary bonding will only relate to pure DCPD’s. Most blended DCPD’s now can achieve and have achieved Lloyds or DNV approvals. these approvals are critical on secondary bonding testing. Lloyds Book K testing methods for secondary bonding. Whilst the layup here isn’t excessive, the concern I have is the weight of the knitted fabric at 1700 odd and the weave pattern that may present down the track. It isn’t a light weave! You will find the majority of boat builders around the world will not use full VE’s for no other reason other than cosmetics. They also select heavier weaves of fabric for labour saving benefits as well. Better to put 1 heavy layer of weave down than two or three. The critical factor then is the resin they use.The one thing you can quite easily do with a VE is re-post cure it at a higher temp down the track. This could simply be the time of the year you construct the part in i.e. winter then expose the part to a hot summer. Don’t forget we cure most parts at ambient generally. Quite often you will see as I mentioned earlier in the thread a part that has come off the mould looking great. Then either an orange peel or a print pattern coming through from either the core or the weave of a fabric knitted or woven, presenting itself. These cannot be fixed easily or cheaply. It’s the VE that causes this. Most cosmetic conscious builders, nowadays will use either print blockers, barrier coats or VE/DCPD blends behind their gelcoats. It horrifies me when I see a boat with weave patterns, or a camper that has lumps and bumps in it and sure the owner probably is accepting of these flaws but mostly they are ignorant to what has caused them.
You would be horrified also to see what goes into the construction of a modern production camper. Not a lot. I qualify this statement by saying they don’t need a lot. They have stood the test of time and perform on roads in the most rugged of environments very well.
I suppose all I am saying in this long winded post is think out your resin selection, sometimes better isn’t better!

Just posting to keep active here - haven’t given up the idea - just been busy - camping, and… something a bit more my wife’s style, a10 day Alaskan cruise :slight_smile: it was nice… wow - amazing beauty. But I kept thinking how much I’d like to be IN that that wilderness - not just looking at it!

Cheers all!!